The little guys takes down big oil.
68Rise up little people of the nations, and take down the oil haggs.
This is going to be a different hub for me in support of my hubber friend Jeromeo.
First, the pep talk:
Remember David and Goliath? David was the little guy who had to take on the big giant Goliath, the most feared of all the men. Let's say now, that us, the little people are the David, and the big oil executives are the Goliath.
David had a rock and a sling shot. We too are like that, we have a rock, this is God (any faith will due), we have a sling shot, this is us, with our eyes on the target. Our target...taking down Goliath.
Taking down Goliath seems a bit of an unfair battle, but it's is Us againts, them. We can do this!
The vision:
A little while back my husband was going to take a job with an oil company in Colorado. I felt uneasy about it, but it was finally an opportunity to live a decent life and not worry so much over money matters. I told him, ok, take the job.
Then I dreamt that my car had been stolen and stripped. I was crying because it was all I had. I sought council with God and He showed me this.
There were three doors. One was just under my feet, and one was up in the heavens. I looked up at the door in heaven, and cried, "no God, I am not ready to go." Immediately I looked down, my eyes full of tears, and there was a door under my feet. I cried, "no God, that's not fair." Then I saw a third door in the middle, and it opened up. All I could see was fire burning.
Suddenly I was driving in a car with a little boy in the back seat. We were coming around a burm in the mountains. I reached back, buckled up my little boy, and turned back around ready. In front of me a pile of oil tankers collided into each other and I drove into the back of them. Then off in the distance I watched and realized that oil was my enemy.
I woke to tell my husband, do not take that job. I knew what we were giving up. I was sad, to tell you the truth, but I couldn't let it happen. And now today, the vision makes sense. Take down the oil haggs!
the rest:
I would say we have made a pretty good effort to reduce our use of oil, however it was only enough to drive the cost of fuel up. In the effort to reduce oil, the oil companies got scared and realized that we wanted to take um back down. So they continually raise the cost of oil to compensate for the losses. But now we have to do some more. We can not rely on our government alone to make this change happen. We can not depend on other people to make this happen. We have to make our own self sacrifices.
Evidently, our sacrifices are being made in small places, called the grocery store, or gifting, or clothing etc. Cutting cost in these areas is causing a radical decline in our economy, it effects the farmers, who drive up cost of vegetation to support the truckers fuel to get food into your home. It effects, the small business on the corner who sells books to make a good living, it effects our quality of life. It effects our utility bills.
How many people have noticed over the last few years, the cost of electricity has more than doubled? I know a few years ago I was paying an average of 15$ a month, now it's up to about 50$ a month, not to mention the cost of water, and all the new taxes that are being issued because we have to pay....dundadada! The oil companies. Yes, it all works this way, and who feels it the most? The hard working individuals who spend their income on living expenses that do not include, new clothes for their children, maybe cable T.V, ( another issue ) a new pair of shoes for the hard working husband.
Not only that, these people are working longer hours, spending less time at home with their families, taking away quality time to maybe take your kids out to see a movie or go to Sea World. This is the cause and effect, this is supply and demand. Now, we need to fix it. You and me.
how to fix it:
Even though the solution is really simple, I do realize the effect it has on people. I know we need gas to get to work. I know we need food to support our lives etc. But what is more important is people, our families, our quality of life, our freedoms, our rights. Every single one is being taken from us before our very eyes because we don't know what else to do. So I will tell you what to do.
Go buy more natural foods from you local grocers, like fruits and vegetables and less of the stuff that isn't good for you anyways. Stop buying so much fast food. You do realize that Coca Cola is one of the economic leader of the world right? That their products get shipped across the seas everyday. Consuming oil of course.
I am saying, buy locally, buy local goods, buy local clothing etc. This isn't a shot at China or India, because I am asking China and India to buy local as well. It's not a new philosophy, but one that will work. We have to support locally, so that we are less dependant on the foreign goods.
Of course there are somethings that we need each other for as nations, but we can dramitcally change the outcome of the domino event and bring the price back down. But above all, stop using oil!
I know you have heard already about car pooling, fuel efficient vehicles, umm...the bicycle, walking, jogging, public transportation etc. Use them, God gave us legs to walk on so use them. If we did this for just a short period of time, it would change everything.
The government is not going to reduce our dependency on oil, so we have to do it. Yes, us the little people of the nations, the ones that take all the crap anyways. I know that the rich people of the world don't really care cause they don't feel it and life is good for them, but if we allow it, it will only get worse.
So if you can't be humbled enough to ride a bus, or walk to work or car pool, then what comes next will be worse. Imagine now that you didn't listen to me and all the people who are trying to make a difference, and in a couple of years America's recession is a full blown depression. Then you wont even have a job. It's like handing yourself over to be destroyed.
We can stop it now but it takes more than just a handful of the billions there are in the world to make it work. This isn't the first time you have heard a person rant about stuff like this, we have been ranting for some time now, and look what happened, so if you think it won't get worse, that you don't have to do anything, you wrong! You do have to, you have to make the sacrifice before you will see the reward.
The government is not going to fix it. The government is not going to fix it. The government is not going to fix it, and the rich people don't see it.
I am calling on you, I am calling on the Christian fellowship of any denomination. I am calling on all God's people, I am calling on Israel, I am calling on India, I am calling on Australia, and Europe and China, and the Philippines, and atheist. I am calling on any tongue, of any color, of any creed, of any religion. We have to be together, this is not a God issue, this is a global issue, this is our life.
Let's take it back, we can do it from the inside and shake the oil down.
Thanks Bryan1028 for the video link.
I added it to the hub.
Oil, smoke & Mirrors.
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Comments
Thanks but I believe they will. I have to believe it.
also, I don't want to have to live that way. I don't want someone else who doesn't care about me to rule my life.
I said I may be wrong - and I know I was wrong many times in my life. Don't listen to an old grumpy soul and do your job :)
Oh, and they don't rule your life - you do. Together with your God.
well I am just beside myself with all the sh-- that goes on...We bring it on ourself..we vote in the most stupid people and think they are gonna fix anything. daaa...Our soldiers are dying for what? Bless them God....
where I live we all do support our local farmers..we have fought and fought for our organic farmers...and Wal-Mart comes in and buys their land. So now several Big Box crap is in here. Realators from other states buy the land and don't even come here to see what we want and have.
We have so many empty buildings it is a crime...Gas is up to 3.79 cents for regular...come on America and all the other countries too.
I do believe each country has something to offer to the world as a whole....Everyone has their own special offering to the world...I would like to see that be done....Well anyway nice hub..I am with you all the way..
My folks went through the depression..and learned much..why can't we learn from the past and go forward...not back? two steps forward and one back...Oh dear Oh my Just G-Ma :o) (rattling on) Hugs
Hi Sandra, where do you get so much pesimism from. "The government is not going to fix it, and the rich people don't see it." That's too general to be true. True there are the big goons who fret over their huge losses (which aren't really losses - they just make less) and who want to control progress. But progress happens anyway and things will change. A new power source will come about to replace oil and nuclear power. And let's not forget the many rich people who give of their millions and billions to help the world. I think some of these good givers desireve some moral support. Don't forget, the enrgy we send out will return to us.
Change will happen, and yes it is up to us to embrace that change and use it for the best of mankind. Empty buildings can be used for other purposes. Its so easy to point the finger and blame, but to do our part. G-Ma, what do you see when you look at those empty buildings? Maybe there is a seed of an idea growing there. Go with it - we can all change the world we live in - even its only affecting a small neighbourhood.
A thousand thanks for the hub, Sandy. I see exactly what we are up against now. There is a complacent attitude out there, about this oil situation. And also a defeatest, acceptance of being enslaved.
Your deep thinking has open my eys to the big picture, and you're right; it's not just oil. Oil is the ring leader to improvorish us all. Out sourcing jobs to 3rd world nations takes away the power of the American middle class.
Our leaders take our tax money and use it to prop up the profits of big oil and other corporate giants.
Now I like jimmurdoch, and have read his hubs; but I agree with him when he says he may be wrong on this one. Because he is. Now if he is well enough off so that the raise in gas is not having an immediate effect on him, thin; I'm am glad to know he and his family are not suffering. but if gas hits $5.00-$6.00 a gallon, he may change his tune.
Heaven forbid that the trickle, up effect of rediculous of gas prices would take away his ability to feed and care for his family; but that's the way it goes. You sit back and watch your neighbor being mistreated and the next day it's you.
Case in point when the Portugiese began the slave trade out of Africa. They were encouraged and aided, by the kings of the different tribes that wanted unrestricted access to any virgin they may choose to bed down. So they entered into agreements with the salve traders to take away the most robust of their young men.
Eventually the kings had no young men left to provide resitance to the slave traders and were taken away themselves. This should be a lesson to any group of people that we are all in this together. And if we don mot join together we will all suffer. Some sooner, some later.
You may not feel it now but if it keeps up you will. Nothing personal Jim but we need to come together on this one. I watched the Hearings on C-Span and it was a total sham. I've seen sixth graders squirm more at a Spelling Bee. So much for congress, grilling Big Oil
Thanks again, Mrs Rinck-Sandy for the support. If ever you need my help, let me know. I haven't had a chance to watch your latest video hub, but I did catch the head banging concert. I was well entertained, Thanks.
And I'll be checking out G-Ma johnson's Hubtivity to see what else she's got to say. Got to love, and admier her spunk.and sense of community.
And by the way, I have to admit, Your hub was bettr than mine, on this subject. Thanks again, friend.
Roland
hey Jim, I prefere to say I am super optomistic. To be realistic about the government, the government is not going to fix it. In America, the government is giving us a economic stimulas tax rebate to help boost the economy. With that they are asking that we support our own country, and it helps, but we would have to buy local american made goods etc. So it's up to us, the people, to do something about it. As well as all nations. I think all nations should support themselves, and rise up againts their oppressors. And the best way to do it, is to support the little people and put the "power" back to where it belongs.
I would love to think our government is going to just fix it, but I really do believe that is will actually have to take us, the little people, to do something. We can't just stand around and watch. Roland is right, if it hasn't effected you now, just wait, and you may be whistlin a different tune.
To be fair, I know that it takes a lot of sacrifice to do it, I am simply saying, be consciously aware of the products you buy, the electricity you use, and how much you drive etc. If everyone did this, it would dramitically change the results.
Like G-ma said, why would you take a step back? If we can see the future, and had a chance to change it, why wouldn't you. We can put up a good fight, and we may lose the battle, but it's better to try, then to declare defeat before due time.
About the rich people. I know I used a general term and I do know that many do give back to their communities, but with any common sense, it is obviously directed towards the people who could care less and go on about their business as usual, without concern for the neighbors.
I hear more often than not, that we can't change anything, but I think we can. America was set up for the people, so the people had control of the government, and the government is supposed to work for us, not the other way around.
America is supposed to be free of oppression, but take a sharper look at what oppression is, and see if you can see through my eyes. It's everywhere.
Hi Roland; (no Hub link?) There is so much pesimism around about how the earth is being destroyed, and rightly so. But I try to lift people's optimism to see things from the brighter side. The more people focus on the negative the more they will experience it - what you resist persists - and what you think about comes about. I believe this and have seen this kind of positive attidude improve my own life.
I have only trust for the future in spite of the jona messengers. You see, we have a choice: either we accept everything that is happening around us and feel miserable making our life worse, or we look for the good in every situation and everybody and look for opportunities to do good.
It is no good fighting. We need to forgive and move on. The world is full of opportunity to do good and to create new ways to do things - like new power sources. If more people got inventive instead of pointing the finger the world would improve faster. That I believe in.
G-ma J-- thanks for voicing out! I loved it. Jeromeo's idea was to get as many people who are willing to set a blogging trend about this. He believes that if we do, the government will take note of the trend etc. So, if you would be a doll, it would help much, to write a rant of your own, and pass it on. Internet grass roots style. Hey, hey! LOL. Hugs right back.
The finger is pointed, a better perception of this hub, should be saying to you, we need to help our government, our government will not fix it alone. I love your sytle and all Jim, and I admire possitive approaches to life, but when there is an obsticle up that doesn't promise a good outcome, let's fix it. This type of fixing, comes in the most peaceful of ways, no one has to know but yourself, that you are helping, even if you don't believe it, think about the people who do, the people it effects etc. They are all well worth your effort as well. I don't think you can get any more possitive than that.
Hi Sandra, I agree. Its up to us. The more we rely on the goverments the more they can mess up. Its just not possible to regulate everything with today's selfish markets. Everyone must do their part. But I'm talking about saving to avoid poverty (I'm not for wastefullnes, please understand me). I have learned that poverty is a state of mind (Napoleon Hill) as is wealth. Its my choice and yours, which do we want? It is my purpose to help others to raise their conscious awareness of who they are, and that we are all connected. The more who gain awareness the higher and better our world will be.
This might sound pie in the sky kind of hopefullness. It isn't really and I am not alone (thank God). I have come out of unemployment 3 years ago to a good position now as IT manager in Zurich. Even though the big banks are collapsing here around us our company is making new deals and partnerships. I have 4 sons, one of which has just completed his training as a British soldier and will be stationed in Iraq - I am a peace lover! My wife and I are planning big things for our future - ways to help others improve health, wealth and spirituality.
Sit back and moan, or get up and create! Improve our world!
I highly reccomend everyone watch a video called "Oil Smoke & Mirrors". The oil situation we are in is worse than many believe. You can view the video at: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8677389869 (GOOD VIDEO)
The government is trying to do things to get more oil. Another good video is located at http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com watch PART II which starts at 40Min into video.
Hello, Jim
Now I better understand your out look on things, and understand why you maintain an optomistic viewof the world. Let me say this, I consider myself very well blessed.
Not like the people you see every day; and when you asked them how they are doing they say "I'm blessed". But like, I know that out of all the eggs in my mothers womb, and all the seeds in my fathers sperm; By Gods Grace, I am enjoying life.
I have never prayed for anything that I did not receive. Once it took two years for God to know I was serious about the matter, and arrange things to be corrected for me, but he did.
Other times I couldn't get the prayer out before it was answered. And it's remains like that today. I rail about the artificial Gas crunch, not because I can't afford to buy Gas, at $4.00 a gallon. But because it makes me angry to think of the people who can't afford it; who are struggling every day.
And to know that one group of people can treat another group of people this way and evryone just sits back and allows it to happen. When you think of it the people who go fight in Irag, are fighting so we all can enjoy a quality of life.
If my contribution to the daily struggle; of the average person, is writing a blog or a hub that draws attention to corruption and unfair treatment or my brothers and sisters, then I am blessed to have the means to help them when they cannot help them selves.
I get your point. But I'm not a bitter or unhappy person nor am I depressed, I just feel a need to help those who cannot help themselves.
When you think of following the example that Jesus Christ set, he died so all of us could be saved. He didn't have to, and he was not bitter or depressed, his heart told him it was the right thing to do and he volunteered to die. Writing a Hub is not even close to the sacrifice he made. And those who suffer are brothers and sisters.
And because I can afford to buy gad today doesn't mean I will be able to afford it tommorow.
After reading some of Sandra's hubs on this subject,( God bless her) I have decided to take a more positive approach in my efforts to change things. And I agree that keeping it up beat, helps.
So after admitting that, suggestions like buying close to home, and restricting other buying habits, creates a better buffer against Higher gas prices; I will be blogging from a more positive position. So much negative stuff-everyone wants to feel good.
But the cause is still the same, we have got to stop the maddness.
May God, continue to bless you and yours, and your son will be in my prayers.
Here's somthing I want you to watch for. Shortly the governments of this world will turn against all organized religion. When they do I want you to contact me through your hub or other wise and I will at, that time share a secret with you.
Would do it now, but I think you need to see false religion fall, before you will be responsive to what I have to share with you and your family.
Your brother on the Hub,
Jeromeo
To all who have joined this discussion.
bryan1028, has suggested we watch a video that explains some very important aspects of what we are talking about. I think we should all watch the video.
I just saw it and wow! It will realy open your eyes to the seriousness of the oil problem, and the need to get a way form oil altogether.
If someone near your home makes clothing get with them. If you have a farmers market to shop at, shop there. If you can fix your car to run on bio-deisle do it, NOW. The worse is yet to come and only those of us that prepare now, will be spared the horror that is coming, from to much oil dependency.
Watch the Video.
Jeromeo,
You lost me. When you were talking about God, I heard you. When you start scaring me about oil - I don't... When you are telling me that American soldiers are in Iraq so you can enjoy your life - I don't hear you, too... As well as many other things you are talking about in your comments above... you lost me...
sometimes it takes a scare to get people to see what's going on. Closing eyes in this way, is not good. When enough people are saying the same thing, I think it's time to listen. No one wants to be the bad guy, but it usually takes the good guy to say the things that no one wants to hear, so that maybe people could know, that it's time to change.
Be with us Misha, it's hard I know, but if you don't believe what we're saying ( this is not a God thing, this is a life thing) then know that there are people who are doing thier parts for you and for everyone. I have read your work and I know you aren't stupid. No hard feelings if you don't though, even if I really do wish you will help. It really is for a better cause, the cause if for our lives.
ps. Jeromeo didn't mean that comment the way you took it.
Sandy, I'm with you, reading your hubs, watching your YouTube, and exploring your Myspace :)
I believe that you say what you feel - I just think it is naive. But it is what a person of your age is probably supposed to feel - if she has heart. You are a smart girl, and when you get older you'll understand that you can't force anybody to change. You can help those who want to change, though.
People are poor cause they don't want to be rich. For whatever reason. People have this government cause they don't want another one. You can't change that, you can't make them care if they don't. Blaming these problems on rich people is like blaming your own problems on somebody else, and has the same efficiency.
I am not closing my eyes - but I know that my efforts are much better spend where they can make a difference - and I'm not trying to change things that I can't change. More, I know where efforts of the kind Jeromeo promotes lead. When you start blaming problems of one group of people on another group of people, and your efforts are successful, you end up with a revolution.
Go study what happened during and after revolutions - and then decide for yourself if you want to join...
Well it always starts with the poor, hurt and defensless people crying out for help.
Next, someone hear the call, feels compelled to do something for them.
People like you see only the aftermath but never know the cause, you only see it.
I think at 30 I have learned more than a 100 year old man, who never really stopped to understand people. Not just your kind or the rich kind or the medium kind. It's all kind.
I think that, poor people never chose to be poor, no one chooses to be poor unless you have already had money.
I said no hard feelings though right?
ps, the cause is never God.
OK, Misha,
The reference to the soldiers in Irag was that they are there sacrificing them selves for Freedom and Democracy, and the beliefe that all men are intitled to a quality of life. There is no true freedom where there is no true Democracy. And right now capitolism is runnig amuck. And trampling us all you just don't feel in yet.
If you watch the recommended video, you will see that one of the things they talk about is; how people didn't pay attention before the second world war and allowed those terrible things to happen.
I'm just glad to see you in this discussion, you may wonder; what use it is now for us to take time out from watching American, Idol to deal, with this very serious subject, but I'm sure , that in time you will look back and, see what we are trying to do.
That is wake up the people that don't understand what is happening. And I will try to take some of the confusion out of my future comments so you won't drop out.
If you don't believe in God then whatever higher power you relate to. Guess I'll have to read some of your hubs to get a better take on your point of view. See you when I get back.
Sure Sandy, no hard feelings, you are still My Goddess - we are just having a disagreement here :)
OK, Misha,
I got it I just left you hub. I see you mention God on some of your hubs so he's not forieng to you, but mostly you like to make money and drive fast cars. Nothing wrong with that. So gas is not a problem to you now.
By the way I signed up for that PPP, deal you hubbed about, I'll get back to you on how it turns out.
Best thing I can say to you is while your driving think of the littel guy who can't afford a computer or a fast car.
Jeromeo,
Why do you hate people so much?
You are supposed to love them, at least your religion tells you to. I thought it might have been slip of the tongue when I read in your first comment:
"And to know that one group of people can treat another group of people this way and evryone just sits back and allows it to happen..."
After I read your consecutive comments though, I understood that this is your position to blame problems of poor people on rich people, and to hate rich people because of that. I am not going to argue with you since you obviously not going to change your opinion just because dozens of millions of people were killed in the last century by people who honestly and passionately tried to implement ideas like yours.
Good luck.
PS And think about my question. I don't need an answer, think for yourself - you need it...
Sandy,
Be carefull, I think Jeromeo is using you. Talk to your God about this, please.
Thanks Sandra for giving me recognition for the video. Great Hub!
Jerome, glad you took the time to watch the video.
I think everyone should watch this video. I remember giving a DVD to a friend and they said they are too busy to watch it because they had to watch "The Simpson's", I guess that's the average American.
I made a HUB of other related video's.
I will Misha, thanks. as for Jeromeo's comment---"And to know that one group of people can treat another group of people this way and evryone just sits back and allows it to happen..."-------
There is always two sides, sometimes three, to every story.
Go Girl Go.
They do not deserve the robbing of any of our Peoples any where in the YHWH given heavens,the more they take, the more our planet suffers , and the peoplesuffer , while governments and oil and gas companies get richer off the suffering world.Our Earth deserves your voice.
This may be a little long for some, and a little esoteric for others. But I think Sandy will get it.
One of the most subtle ways that evil gains power in this world is by turning the hearts of good people from creation, gratitude and joy to conflict, blame, and combat.
No matter how great the injustice, do not fight it. Resistance, battle, opposition, combat, rallying the troops and going to war on it is never, ever the solution.
Speak no more of oil and the wrongs perpetrated in its pursuit.
Let us hear, instead, only the celebration of the many bounties in life that exist, and exist now, those things like community, and family, and compassion, and spiritual awakening, and renewable energy, and the power of every individual to shape their own experience of life, regardless of their circumstances.
Let us build up the spark of faith in each individual that they ARE powerful, and they ARE the captains of their destiny, and that no faceless evil conglomerate can ever extinguish the light of even one human spirit.
Speak light into the world, for there is no such thing as darkness; it is merely the absence of light.
Speak of what you want, speak not of what you do not want.
Think on what you will for the world; let not your thoughts dwell on those things which are best left to wither and die.
Give the power of your passion only to those things you wish to build - to love, to creation, to co-operation.
Otherwise, your thoughts, your speaking, and the power of your passion will feed the darkness, and evil will have its way.
One cannot, as a warrior for good, fight AGAINST anything. To accomplish anything truly great requires that we direct our energies FOR something.
I request that those who feel passion about this very important subject withdraw, contemplate, and develop a vision worth fighting FOR - a vision in which there are no bad guys, no evil empires, no evildoers, and no exploiters of hapless victims.
In the grand cosmic battle between Love and Fear, let us make sure that each and every one of us is empowering Love, and Love alone.
When you have done this, and you can speak of it in such a way that every word from your lips falls like honey and draws a tear of recognition and gratitude from all who hear it - then will you be able to change the world.
Great hub, Sandy--great discussion and the video is terrific too. I find I want to comment on everybody else's comments, but will restrain myself:-) Just want to say that it is not a good idea to get distracted into thinking that this is a simple black and white struggle between the powerful and the powerless. The little guy is not necessarily victimized and Big Oil is not the anti-christ. We are all in this together and we will all go together when we go:-) JImmy Carter warned us about peak oil in the '70's and tried to do something about it then--the first thing Ronald REagan did after his election was to remove the solar panels from the White HOuse--Neither one was evil. Both were trying to address the problem in the way they thought best. My own feeling is that the oil crisis is just the beginning and the real problem is that there are just too many of us on the planet for the planet to support us. Mother Nature will, no doubt, take care of that eventually, but in themeantime I agree with Misha that there is no way out of a global depression. But good things as well as bad come out of crisis and we all know what it is always darkest before--don't we? Gotta stop or this will turn into a hubette:-) Thanks for a great read and a provocative discussion.
I know Robie2, this is a tuff situation. I don't believe that anyone is just plain evil either. I am pretty sure that people do what they think is right.
I suppose I am also afraid that if all the power goes to one source or organization, that our rights will continually be taken away, or that someone will rewrite the Constitution.
America is supped to be the land of the free, but the outlook doesn't seem to hold to our Constitution. Another issue of course.
I do love America, but evidentally, America is transgressing and becoming like the war inflicted nations of Isreal and such, or soon it could be communistic like China etc.
It seems to always start this way, our American government may be doing the best that they can for the people, but as American people we are supposed to uphold our part too. This is seemingly the only way to go. There is no need for war or death in this matter, further, and goodness I hope anyone has a mind to see, that we are trying to fix it from the inside out so that a full blown global depression and war does not happen.
I feel like my efforts are being sabataged by minds in the wrong direction. I do know that it isn't black and white, but to me the simple and most peacful choice in the matter is to peacefully, put the money back in to the peoples hands.
It's about preserving our quality of life, or justice etc. It's about the people who live in fear of war or depression. I know that not everyone is alike, and I am aware that not everyone is going to be able to have a spiritual awakening, further with regards to the spirits:
If a person has a spiritual awakening during a crisis I would think that some would feel compelled to rage, or revenge ultimatly to death. I would rather not let that happen.
I really do hope that no one is actually taking this hub for fight'n words, there not. I am not fighter, I am a lover.
One day I fell in love...I fell in love with people, and what came with that is every story, every side etc.
Misha said that people chose to be poor. I disagreed, however I did chose to be poor because I needed to see the other side, however I tried to chose to be rich too, but that just didn't happen because there are too many laws, too many rules, too many people too many ideas, too many judgments, too much desire etc.
It is much easier to become poor than it is to become rich. This is a simple truth, and right now, it's becoming really hard just to stay where your at.
I know not everything is simple.
Heaven forbid anyone using my words to constitute hate or violence, that is not my way. That is never the way, but every good side has a bad side.
I do hope that the spirit in people is awakened in Love. Be in loving eyes, look and seek and see in loving eyes and see even the evil in loving eyes. Hope everyone reads Jenny's comment.
I have a question for Misha,
When did you move to America, where you born here? If not why did you come here?
I think it was Pearl Bailey who said " I been rich and I been poor and rich is better" LOL
Sandy,
I'll answer you tomorrow or late at night, OK? I need some time to put the answer together - and today is my wife's birthday - so I don't have that time right now :)
OK, I'm back and answering :)
I was born in Moscow, Russia and lived there. I moved to US around the end of 1999, just a few months before my 40th birthday. By that time I was separated from my former family, had a girlfriend (now my wife :)) and a decent job.
However, my job was a dead end in terms of career and salary growth, and my girlfriend was going to accept the job offer in Washington, DC. This prompted me to actively search for a solution - and it did not hesitate to come :) I applied to job in Wash DC and got it. It's a kind of a scary move at 40, but looking from now I think I made the right turn :)
So, basically my motives to move to US where career growth and being together with my love :) The fact that it is much warmer in Wash DC also played a big role, cause I just hate cold... But now I know it's not warm enough for me here, too, so I'm thinking of the warmer destination again ;)
I was thinking though, how this info is related to the topic of our discussion - and frankly could not find an answer. May be you meant to ask something else or I did not understand?
because the reasons you moved here for are the reasons we do "this" for. That is America.
...That is why America has a Constitution and that is why "we the people" have to do our part. Our government can't rely on themselves to fix it's problems...In America, it's up to the people.
You are part of the people. Please don't take this the wrong way, but if you came here to have a better opportunity in life, but wont work also to uphold our Constitution, then America will be that place you left behind. The Soviet Union...I mean Russia.
I think anyone who tells me that all I have to do is vote, is spoiled. Our Constitution, is what constitutes our freedoms and right to throw down our government in the event that it yeilds too much power.
Bringing down oil prices by being purchasing from local suppliers will bring more opportunities for the people, not less. Doing so will bring the cost of a dollar back up. When the dollar is up, the prices go down, bring the dollar up, bring the prices down.
I don't want to see our government fall because it is a good system, or was, but right now we are in a situation that hasn't called for "we the people" in a very long time. I don't want to accidentally insult you to say that you should study our Nation. You said before you liked it, but there is a reason behind it. Everything comes with a price.
Oh My Goddess,
If I correctly understand what you are trying to say, it contradicts my worldview on so many levels I even don't know where to start. I think I will try to outline those contradictions without going into any details first and then, if you wish, let you pick up the area you wanna talk about. Cause I'm not Jenny, I don't have her skills, and it will take me pages and pages if I want to explain everything in detail. Even worse, in some of these areas I still do not have clear opinion.
So here goes the list of some of my disagreements with what you are saying in no particular order. I think that:
- Thinking that USA (and any country for that matter) is better or worse than any other country (or all other countries) is 1. Dividing people into Americans and non-Americans - instead of uniting them into one humankind 2. Judging or being blinded by Maya - whatever explains it better to you.
- Taking money from rich and giving it to poor does not make poor richer.
- Government represents the opinion of a majority of the population at the time it was elected.
- Real freedom and happiness does not depend on external factors.
- Given human rights and freedoms are an illusion.
- Purchasing local supply by the tiny minority of population will not affect oil consumption and prices in any noticeable way.
- The vast majority of people are inert.
- The vast majority of people will never ever take part in uncustomary activities pushed on them, unless government does this.
- The efficient way to approach world problems is to fix yourself to fit the world, not vice versa.
- There is no such thing as absolute good and evil, at least we humans do not have enough information to be able to tell one from another.
I probably missed something, and I might extend this post later if I recall something else. I wish I had Jenny's skills - and I hope she'll continue to take part in this discussion, cause it makes my job a million times easier :)
it's ok Misha. America also represent freedom of choice. This is yours. My hub was specific that it should be all nations not just America to take part. So it was not a deviding thing. But you live in America, so I addressed you from America, that's all. I still think your a great person. My MetaGod. :)
Sandra, we think alike, I'm sure. For so long I have been rallying against what's happening in our country, talking to everybody about what is happening because of our climate. Finally God spoke the other day to me and told me stop sharing the "bad news" and start concentrating on His "good news". This helped me get my priorities back because I was really getting stressed out from all the bad things happening in our world.
And yes, if we all even made small changes in our oil consumption it would help, but old habits die hard, and I believe we are in for catastrophic changes during our lifetime.
Me too Dorsi, call me overly optimistic for trying as best we can to not let it happen. I am sad. I am glad that God talked to you, I find my refuge from all this with God as well.
Blessings and keep rockin it sista!
Wow what a discussion - some where back there you talked about oil hitting $6 gallon - well we do litres in this part of the world so I found a conversion and can now tell you that today petrol (gas) is about US$6 / gallon in New Zealand and US$5.20/gallon in Perth/Australia. My brother lives in Ireland and just came back from a 3 week holiday in California - they were staying in motels and eating out and their credit card bill and hiring a car and for 3 weeks in California is less than a month at home (with no motels and little eating out and owning their cars at home). US has had very very cheap petrol for a very long time - but you import a lot of it - New Zealand and Ireland import all their petrol, Australia most. All that's happened is what has happened is that you've caught up with the rest of us!
Its not the end of the world - its just a readjustment and you have an economic recession at the moment. Weirdly if everyone follows your (good) advice of consuming more you will probably head into a long depression - its what happend in the Japan for all the 90's and they still have very low growth. Consumer spending is unfortunately what drives a lot of developed countries economies. Countries like Australia and NZ are doing OK at the moment dispite the oil price - because they are exports of minerals (Australia) and food (NZ) which the world (China and the US) want to consume. That's how economies work - those that produce something that others want do better.
Don't get me started on democracy in the US - how is it a democracy to allow every 2nd person to carry a gun or to bankrupt a person just because they fall ill without health insurance - that's the wild west and I'll settle for paying more taxes to avoid that any day . It was headline news here that the Clintons had paid - shock horror 31% tax on their millions and millions of dollars earnt since he became an ex-President. 33% is what almost all Australian and New Zealanders pay -its a normal tax rate that gives you normal services like health care, a school system and the right not to get shot at in a public place.
Lissie, there are probably different definitions of democracy. I doubt however any of these definitions include caring/not caring guns or the tax rate. Those issues have no relation to democracy whatsoever.
Misha are you lost? In America it has everything to do with democracy. Our right to bare arms is a civil liberty. Taxes have everything to do with democracy.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/democracy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/democrac
Well, scared to be lost, I decided to check this, and made some short research. :D
Out of those three sources I randomly picked, neither one talks about arms or taxes... At least I was not able to find this...
This actually makes me thinking that at least a part of our current disagreement is rooted in our different understanding of words we are using. Not sure how to approach it in this particular case, though, My Goddess :)
Well, an armed population can pretty much assure itself that it can fight to preserve democracy in the face of a govt turned tyrannical. So, while I disagree with Sandra on virtually every other point, I'm with her on this one. Gun rights and democracy go hand in hand. The first secures the other.
LOL Ladies, what you are saying is that USA is THE ONLY democracy in the World - cause only USA has this particular combination of gun rights and tax rate :D
So, Germany is not a democracy because it taxes its citizens differently and does not allow them to bare guns? Does not make any sense to me...
And just to clarify - I am not against gun rights, I do think people should be allowed to bare guns, as well as people should be allowed to do lot of other stuff currently prohibited in the USA - like drugs, speeding, alcohol, etc... This is not the point :)
The point is that democracy is just a way how state officials are appointed, no more no less. From Merriam-Webster : "a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections"
And Sandy, The Bill of Rights is a very interesting paper, but I do not see where it defines democracy. It does not even mention it.
never mind Misha, you don't get it. I feel sorry for you. You don't know what democracy is because you don't know how to use it.
There is much more than just how are officials are appointed. but if you don't get it you don't get it.
If you want a depression than a depression is what we will have. Fine, live with it. don't complain when it happens because all you could ever tell yoursel is how you didn't do anything to help stop it.
Be on your own and take the world down with you, that is your motto. Good luck.
I don't know how to reply to this My Goddess...
No, Misha. I'm not saying that the US is the only democracy in the world. I'm saying that it is the only one where its citizens can defend themselves against its own govt turning tyrannical.
The Bill of Rights as a document does not exist on its own. It is simply amendments to the Constitution - the document which outlines what America means when it says "democracy".
Dictionaries are perfectly adequate for defining most words, but they fail massively when it comes to defining anything that has any real complexity to it. So your insistence on a dictionary definition of the word is a bit mystifying. Would you use a dictionary to explain the concept of God and the myriad of meanings that word and concept has to people?
Embitca is right.
Let me remind where we started on this. Lissie wrote:
Don't get me started on democracy in the US - how is it a democracy to allow every 2nd person to carry a gun or to bankrupt a person just because they fall ill without health insurance - that's the wild west and I'll settle for paying more taxes to avoid that any day . It was headline news here that the Clintons had paid - shock horror 31% tax on their millions and millions of dollars earnt since he became an ex-President. 33% is what almost all Australian and New Zealanders pay -its a normal tax rate that gives you normal services like health care, a school system and the right not to get shot at in a public place.
And I replied:
Lissie, there are probably different definitions of democracy. I doubt however any of these definitions include caring/not caring guns or the tax rate. Those issues have no relation to democracy whatsoever.
In other words, Lissie implied that the form of government in America is not a democracy, because of gun rights and tax rates. Does it explain why I referred to dictionaries?
There are democracies that allow people to have guns, and there are democracies that don't. There are democracies with higher tax rate, and there are with lower. It does not change the fact that they are democracies.
Exaclty right, but the democracy we or I refere to is the one that is by own government besotwed on us as our liberties and justifies us in our actions to change it.
every 2nd person is not the way it is supposed to be, as our second or forth amendment allows us. But because people either just don't get it or just don't care, the system of our government is running a muck and we are supposed to change it.
There is always two sides. One side may like what it is like right now, then there is the other side that doesn't like it. And the third side that sees the future and want to change it.
All those issues relate to democracy. Just like you can't see how i make the connection, I can't see how you don't.
Interesting discussion of important issues. Thanks for sharing.
Just a quick note. I am in Las Vegas for a conference and there is no sign of recession or any lack of money here. The people here are spending and losing and coming back to do it again. I don't live in the US, but this is my impression as a visitor.
You know many people cry wolf and hate their governments. The rest of us have to discern if what they say is true or false. Like global warming, there are also so many scientists who can sho evidence against it, but they don't get on the news.
Take care everyone. See the world as you want it to be.
Sandy, I give up on this. May be Jenny will be able to explain to you that carrying a gun is not an essential characteristic of democracy, neither a specific tax rate. I can't
not the point Misha, not the point. We agree here, but we don't agree on the point. Carying a gun to defend yourself againts people who carry guns to bring death isn't a practice of hate.
I can't believe that you think I preach hate. Your wrong. You are wrong, you are wrong. That is not the message I am telling people.
Jim, Vegas is a money pit where it makes exchanges continually. Visiting there doesn't really give an accurate description of the rest of America. Ask anyone in America about Vegas, What goes on in Vegas stays in Vegas. LOL!
Jimm, Vegas is not America. It is one small and completely non-representative city in America that happens to be filled with tourists and conference visitors like yourself from all over the world and most of these people seem to enjoy losing their money.
Sandy,
I never thought you preach hate. I know you preach love. I wouldn't spent any time on this discussion if I thought you preach hate :)
And did I say anything about hate while we were discussing democracy? I don't remember this :)
Now, please try to put down the point we don't agree on - as you see it. Your position and my position, as you see them. Cause I'm absolutely confused about the topic of our debate after your last post...
OK, First to my friend Sandy,
I apologize for being away form this discussion so long, but this is one the longest running comments on a hub I seen.
To Misha, no I am not trying to use Sandy. Something you should know. The other day; after reading your hub and checking out PPP, I answered a comment form my original hub. Ms. Rinck was all over me about how, I had misinterpeted you, and I had to first apologize and then let he know that: I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Now the comment I made was that from the cursory notice that I took of the hubs, on your site, it seemed to me you were more interested in making money and driving cars fast than, more serious matters.
We are not always going to agree on everything, but to accuse someone of hatred because they feel that carrying a gun for selfdefense is OK, or to think people are wrong just because they can see when the government that is elected to stand up for them; is being carried away by greed and undue influence; is being a bit judgemental. Let's respect each others rights to our opinons.
If I remember correctly you also wrote about God on your hubs so to me that says you do believe. At any rate, the point is we are all little people. If Jesus had not stood up for us all then we would not have any salvation to look forward to.
More to the point have you noticed the other hubbers who seem to understand the bottom line on this discussion. This has been perculating for some time, but because no one wanted to stand out or stand alone they've been holding back the things they are no expressing in this discussion . Or venting as it were, another method of copying with injustice.
This is a solid discussion on a common problem. Maybe all the people in Tibet and France and the other countries standing up agaist the Olympics being held in China are wrong, but just like in this discussion they protestor are passionate about their positions.
To Robie2 right on, the good thing that has come out of this is we are discussing the matter. That's the way people get together and change things. The constitution was written by some guys getting together and deciding to do something about a bad situation. Now they have election in the Uniterd States.
To bryan, 1028, now look what you went and did with that video; got every body talking, way to go.
I am sure that we can all get along, some of us may not see the big picture, like robie 2 and Dorsi, but when we all get together we can exchange information and see things a whole lot better than we see alone.
To my friend; I know that you don't realy need my help in defending your position Sandy; you do a fine job of that by yourself, I'm glad you and the others lent your proscetive to a world wide situation. Its fbeen waiting to be discussed, hubville. and I'm taking notes on how to write more effective hubs.
I believe healthy conversation abut serious matters keeps us all form getting to self centered. And focused on the important things in life, and I am glad to be part of the community.
MISHA, Welcome to America.
Jeromeo,
Thanks for the welcome. I came over and checked your hubs about oil and comments, and I see now that I was wrong assuming you are using Sandra - she offered her help herself.
Another thing that I clearly saw is that you do hate rich people. More, you openly call for a revolution. Your God will judge you, I won't. I'm back to making money, so I can feed my kids and send some money to my parents and several other elder relatives...
Sandy,
I'm out of this hub. More than before I think you are making a mistake going this route. This is not the way of Love as I see it. I tried to convince you and failed. Sorry about that, I will work on my delivery skills. And don't worry, you are still My Goddess :)
It's all right Misha, I try my best to do the same things. The difference I suppose between you and I, is that I have a hard enough time just feeding one kid let alone myself right now.
So maybe my family will starve before yours, I don't know. But I know that my kid is just as important as yours to you.
So don't give me this about, it is not the way to Love. I will do anything for my kid, and yes, if there ever came a time when I will need a gun to defend me and my kid, you are God damb right that I will do whatever I have to do to keep her and myself alive.
That's the way the world works. Be gratefull that I am not one of those people who go out and cause riots or steal from the rich or do all sorts of rediculas things. I got a lot of love to give, but I am still human.
OK, Misha,
You've got it wrong. I don't hate rich people; I feel sorry for them. When a CEO makes $40,000,000, a year and the people under him can't get a cost of living raise that keeps up with inflation, or they can't get a minimum wage that will help them feed their families, Is this right? Is this loving your neighbor?
Why is it that you feel every one else is wrong and you're right. How about the young rich man in the Bible who asked Jesus what would it take for him to become a follower of Christ, when jesus told him he'd have to, sell all his belongings and give the money to the poor; he walked away disappointed. He knew he could never give up being rich.
What I will tell you Misha is: when you see the UN turn against organized religion, then you will know with out a doubt that having lots of money is not the key to life.
Lastly just because people don't agree with you doesn't make them bad people, the fact that you can't convince them to love their neighbor less is no reason to look down on them.
Guess I'll go check out your Hub.
I forgot something (Misha) you need to know. After the Un takes down organized religion, God is going to take care of all the rich people. For my part I hope they all find trhe narrow road that leads to everlasting life before that happens.
And If I do call for a revolution it's is a bloodless revoloutin that's gives every one food on the table and the respect they deserve.
Bless ya Jeromeo, I don't think you are doing anything wrong, and it's ok about Misha. He just doesn't understand. Refering to the Bible story you talked about. It does make me a little sad. So what can I say? He said let them go on doing what they are doing and we don't have to worry about them. Sounds sad because I do anyways, but I know Jesus said it for a reason.
Misha I have just one more question. What would you suggest we do?
I think a lot of what you say makes perfect sense.Here in the UK I can get a DVD player from China for the price of a couple of take out Pizzas made down the road... I just cannot get my head around that fact.If that dvd player breaks, its trown away as its not economical to repair... its mad... completely unsustainable and an outrageous waste.
Sandy,
Aren't Jenny saying: "What you resist - persists"?
Or, from Jesus:
You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
—Matthew 5:38-42,
But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back.
—Luke 6:27-31.
In other words, learn to accept this World as it is, with all its imperfections...
Indeed I already have. So can you accept me in this way as well?
Sure I can :) And I do. You are worth God to me, as any other person around - no matter how much our current opinions differ :)
Yeah! Then Misha you have found the only thing perfect in the soul. God Bless you Misha. My Genuin MetaGod. Holy, Holy, Holy!
God bless you my Goddess :)
I think I'm far from holiness, though...
Hello Sandy,
Thought I might find you here. Look for a personal email on the book.
If Misha is a fan of your's that is good enough for me. Like I said I checked out, his hub about PPP, and signed up. As far as that turning the other cheek business. The Bibles tells us that bad associations spoil usuful habits.
What that means is, don't hang around people who are subject to engage in violence just for violence sake. And to stay away form people who are subject to uncontroled out burst.
So the real reference is to dealing with your true brothers and sisters, whom you are suppose to love, as you love yourself; and if one of them has a bad moment or a bad day then. Give them your cloak, turn the other cheek, make allowences for their bad behavior. Or as in the case of the good Sumaritan, if it's in your power to do good, for someone suffering, do it.
I know Misha has a compassionate side [I think] he just hates to loose a debate.
In anticipation of the next Bible reference....yes love your enemys, but if they have the capacity to shoot you, or steal from you, common sense says stay a way form them.
And play the fool for no man. Guy knows you are spiritual and seeks to make a fool of you, so he walks up and says that's a nice coat...answer yes they sell them at....?????? Now if it's robbery, and he's got a weapon, then hand him the coat.
So we Pray for ourt enemys and don't stay up nights making ourself sick hating them.
I knew Misha would be back.
Oil update. 112. + a barrell. You called it Jeromeo.
oil update. 117.40 a barrell. 116+ just last week, next week...what???? 120$ a barrell? Not long before we see that number.
3 million jobs lost in America already, but that is just from the ones they know about.
oil update, near 120$ India is proposing to ban foreign commodates to help elevate the rising cost of food.
Hmmm, maybe by the end of the week, it will be 150$. I bet they get away with it.
It seems that the oil companies know that sooner or later we will do somthing about their greed but until then they are going to raise the price of oil. No ones doing any thing so they are free to gouge us all.
They are the cause of most of the economic problems we are having and we still sit and do nothing.
By the time it's over gas will be $6.00 a gallon. People are already cashing in their 401-K's to by gas and keep up with their other economic, obligations.
I bet they get away with it too.
You know this is very interesting. My country (Trinidad and Tobago) is an oil producing one. Our economy is growing, but with that everything is going up, food, housing, electricity etc. The people are asking the Government to do something, but what can the government do? They bluntly said they are not going to subsidsie food.
Recently they were going to purchase an executive jet costing millions of US$. Everybody spoke against it. However they said the deal fell through, but we still think it's because of the outcry.
Governments don't really care about their people, they just think about what is good for them or convenient for them. We have to take care of ourselves as best we can.
So true lisaG,
And they do on occasion pay attention to what we say and do, but only if enough of us react, it looks like the only way to get big oils attention is for us to stand as a globally uinited group.
And since everyone is preoccupied, with the Olympics, guess that's out.
May 6th oil 122$
You may want ot check out this hub, too : http://hubpages.com/hub/Gas-Prices-The-Oil-Well-Ha
May 7th, oil up 124$.
When are you going to call the top? ;)
Not really sure what you mean, but I will say 154$ by July, maybe August, then it is all on, just in time for more cold weather.
I think I am gonna stock up now on blankets. lol. Acutually, I am not kidding.
This bubble will burst as all other bubbles before it, the question is "when?". And your guess is as good as mine :D
Today, oil 128$. May 16th.
May 21st, oil 130$+.
My bad, 133$ today. I am pretty sure it has everything to do with Bush stopping oil shipments to restore our emergency oil supply. Not sure if this is a good thing or bad thing.
I guess a few more weeks will tell.
135 today.
sandra, I ran across this "rant" on what we will do about our oil dependence right after I published my own. I agree with you. The only ones who can conquer our addiction to oil are us. We can't depend on anyone else, because it is we who suffer, we who are addicted.
It's interesting that less than 2 weeks ago you predicted $154 per barrel. Today we are already at $135. The rise is astonishing! Misha says the bubble will burst as all bubbles do, but I wonder at what cost.
We have gone merrily along our way for so long. I wonder what it will take to wake us up as a society. Maybe this is it. One person wakes up and s/he wakes up another then we each wake up another and so on. Like the grains of rice on the chessboard, soon there will be too many to count and the world will begin to move in the right direction.
Thanks weclicktotravel: yes, at what cost is my main concern. I don't doubt the bubble will burst, I fear what happens when it does. Only time will tell. I am gonna go over to your hub now. Thanks!
Did you read the comment 4 weeks ago, I said, what next 120$, next day bam! 120$.
June 6th oil, 138.54$.
June 16th, 140$!
June 30, gas a barrel reached 143.00 breifly then closed at 142.$
Thank you for this hub!! I hope we all get into the mood to become involved in necessary changes. I just bot 2 mo pads, i hope i don't get killed on them. they're big ones, but I will just use them for short trips, sigh. what a mess we're in. Let's fight back!! We can make many simple changes in our lives; this weekend I was nearly run over many times by people driving way over the speed limit. We all know that 55 mph saves gas. Consolidating trips to the stores and for errands is just wise. I'm making some small changes, and voting and writing to congressman like crazy.
Being informed is a full time job now.
That is pretty fantastic marisue. I wish I could afford a moped. I would sport it, no shame there for me. If I saw you pedding down the road I would give you a hang loose, and love sign.
A few people have started changing thier ways so I am praying that it catches on before it gets completely out of control,which it alrady feels like it is.
I woke up this morning listing to the Mikey Show on the Rock and they were sayiing something about having a 60$ max. on how much gas you can buy for the day. It sounds good, unless your job requires you to travel, like truckers or contracters and stuff.
What do you think?
Gas has gone down. Does that make things better? Don't think so. I'm worried deeply about our economy. It's time to invest overseas.
I don't know about that epictruth, it seems a lot of the problem came from investing overseas. Just something to think about. Thanks for reading.
sandy
The reason for the oil pull back is two fold. first 12 Airline company execs sent emails to their flying customes asking them to contact there government reps. to protest oil speculation.
Second the US Senate just passed legislation to raign in the out of control oil speculators.
Just goes to show as long as we do something they will react. So like mariesur says write your state's rep. in congress and let them know we are tired of these rising gas prices.
Jeromeo,
Did I miss your apology to HP staff for accusing them of censorship in the interest of oil companies?
Sandy,
One thought crossed my mind the day before, and I'm glad Jeromeo reminded me of it. I first came to US in 1994, when oil cost around $15 - and gas for around a buck all over the country back then.
Nowadays gas prices rose four-fold, but oil prices - tenfold! If anything, American oil companies are getting LESS profit than before...
Hey Misha. I remember those days, when I started driving gas was 97 cents a gallon.
I don't really know that American oil companies are making less profit then before, to me it seems like thier profits have more than trippled. Unless you are talking about the value of the dollar having less power then it did in 94?
Can you explain?
IDK Sandy, I just remember the oil was around $15 back then. I don't remember exact figures, but I pretty much sure it was in 10-20 range. Now it is 150 - tenfold increase. And gas was 1 dollar and now four. Fourfold increase.
I am not an economist and never seriously looked at the details of oil business. However, if we assume oil companies buy oil on the market and sell gas on the market - it looks like they have much slimmer profit margin nowadays. They buy 10 times higher and sell just four times higher. If they did sell with proportional increase, gas should have been around $15 now.
Oh, I see what you are saying. Very interesting.
In 1994 a barell of oil was about 16$ and sold for average 1.20 a gallon of gas which means they made 24.40 profit per gallon of gas sold.
Today at 140 (on average so far) at 4.6 a gallon on average, they make almost 90$ per gallon of gas sold.
Which no shit, I am not making this up to suite the needs of the Christian doctrines cause I just did the math. The oil companies are making 66.6$ more per gallon which is what 3x what they made 15 years ago.
Umm... at the moment I am feeling a little weirded out at the number. Spooky!
So even though it seems that the oil companies are taking a hit according to your thaughts, in 1994 the average consumption of oil was something like 21 thousand barells a year to 3. 8 million gallons a year which means they were making about 500 thousand in profits in 94 and now it is a rediculas number something to the effect of 1.38 x10 to the 12th.
That is a lot a lot a lot of money!
What is that? Something like 17.5 billion a year.
1.20*42=50.4
50.4-16=34.4
4.6*42=193.2
193.2-140=53.2
And not per gallon, but per barrel.
So, you need to refresh your math :)
34.4 vs 53.2 looks much less dramatic :P
And I am using your numbers, which I believe are slightly off ;)
Also, we did not factor in expenses and taxes...
1 barell of oil produces 19.5 gallons of gas.
In 94 the consumption of oil was far less then it is today.
So even if my calculations are slightly off, buying a barell at 150$ as opposed to 16 in 94, the demand for oil has increased by about 3.5 million times what it was in 94.
so...in 1994
21,000*16$=336,000$
21,000*19.5=409,500-336,000=73,500 profit.
in 2008
3.8 million*150=4.5 billion
4 million*19.5=78 billion-4.5 billion = 73.5 billion in profits.
These numbers don't include taxes or expenses, but at 73 billion more in profits today then in 94, who cares! LOL.
P.S, I think these numbers are actually in the trillions but I don't have a very good calculator. It would be 7.3*10 to the 13th power.
So the demand for oil or our oil consumption plays a huge role in the market.
LOL I stand corrected - of course one gallon of oil does not produce one gallon of gas! :)
So, you say it takes roughly 2 gallons of oil to produce 1 gallon of gas, right?
Not sure were 21,000 came from and what it means, and definitely your calculations of total costs/profits for 1994 do not have anything to do with reality. Just give it some thought - ALL American oil companies had $73,500 in profits BEFORE expenses and taxes? Where did they take money to pay salary to thousands of their workers, let alone other expenses and taxes?
Now, let's see what my calculations look like if we factor this 2:1 ratio in.
One barrel of oil in 1994 costs $16 and gives 20 gallons of gas selling for 1.20
20*1.20-16=$8 profit
One barrel of oil in 2008 costs 140 and gives 20 gallons of gas selling for 4.60
20*4.60-140=($48) loss
:P
Yes, the average oil consumption in 94 was something like 21 thousand barrels a year or day, who knows but that is the number.
Today it is 3.8 million. so try the number again considering the 3 million more in sales, the difference is a profit into the billions or trillions.
so 3.8 e6 * 4.6-140= 2,006.24 profit.
:)
Sandy,
I am sorry, but you are definitely missing something here. I don't know where you take those numbers - they do not match. Oil consumption did not increase in that proportion. Let me see what I can find, and I'll get back to you on this.
And you did not point out what is wrong with my calculations ;)
Yes, the porportions did increas that much. What was wrong with your calculation was the number of barells consumed in 94 to what is being consumed in 08.
But yes get back to me, we may have a government conspiracy on our hands. Muahahahah.
And on second thought I do think it was 21 thousand barrels a day in 94, and 3.8 million in 2008 a day.
OK, here you go: http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mgfupus1A.h
In thousands barrels (means we need to multiply numbers by 42,000 to get gallons) numbers for 1994 and 2007 years are about 2,750,000 and 3,400,000. Now, multiply those by 42,000 and we get 115,500,000,000 gallons of gas supplied in year 1994 vs 142,800,000,000 in year 2007
Which translated into 115,500,000,000*$8/20=46,200,000,000 profit in 1994 vs 142,800,000,000*($48)/20=($342,720,000,000) LOSS in 2007...
As for what you think was a mistake in my maths - sorry I don't agree :) If specific numbers are negative, no matter how big number you multiply it by, it still stays negative - just gets more negative :)
But Misha you can't use the same number of of barells consumed in 94 and 2007.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/01/business/01cnd-e
They may be paying for per barell, but thier shares are doubling. So a lot of people have thier hand in the market for oil. If the price per share use to be a dollar, and today it is 2.5 bucks, they can afford to buy at a higher cost, sell at a higher cost, take a cut but generate more in revenue through share holders and the consumers consumption.
The cost of oil is also lessening the buying power of the dollar. So our money is becoming worth less and foreign money is becoming worth more.
So while the American oil companies are spending 150 a barell, the foreign countries are taking a temparary loss, not us. But they are not stupid.
They can take a loss for while, but in no time at all according to the way we do business, all our money (which is happening now) ends up in other countries and we are not getting a return.
So, maybe there is a consipiracy going on. So your calculations are right, it does look as though they are taking a loss or there must be some way they are producing more oil per barrel then they were in 94. I am going to check into it and get back to you.
There is something fishing about this unless XXon is another Enron. Which either way we look at it, we are in for some sorry sh**.
Sandy,
I am not going to try and convince you that Exxon takes a loss :) Since my calculations seem to be correct, but result does not match reality - assumptions should be wrong. Remember, several posts back I assumed that oil companies buy oil at the market and sell gas at the market? This was the assumption all calculations were based on.
So, this assumption is proven wrong. Since we know that oil companies sell gas at the market, the other part should be wrong. Means their production cycle starts somewhere sooner than buying oil at the market, and what they lose on oil-gas transformation they make up somewhere earlier with oil itself :)
Ok, things being added to gas to produce more is one reason.
Electricty generates another 38%.
XXon is only the 14 largest oil company, the largest and most profitable are foreign.
Our 1 dollar is worth about 62 cents of a euro.
So foreign markets are making .38 off our 1 dollar. So at 150$ they are making 207.00$ U.S.
So in anycase Misha, I know you love to drive and all and you want a good reason to believe that your driving habits are not effecting the economy. And I don't have a problem with you doing what you love to do.
but...the reality really is that the more we consume the worse things will get, and not eveyone joy rides. I know it doesn't effect you directly because maybe you can afford it, but not everyone can.
So also from what I was reading, in 94 we got 19.5 gallons of gas per barell, now we can get 42 gallons out of a barell.
Which means they profit 81,557 daily, which is less then the actual amount they are making.
So now we do the math again and this what we get.
1.20*19.5 in 1994 = 23.40-16.00= 8$ profit.
4.60*42 in 2008 = 193.20-150 = 43.20 profit.
LOL Sandy,
This really was not about me trying to defend my right to drive. I had a thought about oil companies dumpening the price rise and wanted to share it with you - no more, no less...
PS 1 barrel = 42 gallons. Pretty much like 1 dollar = 100 cents. Your math is off again ;)
I know it is not about you and driving. I was just saying that it effects other people. And my math is not off. I love you anyways though regardless of our differences.
Love you, too :)
LOL Sandy, by our talks we pushed your hub to the homepage under education :D
Misha says:
5 months ago
Sorry Sandy, but a full-blown depression is coming anyway. Good luck to your effort, but I'm afraid there is not much you can do here. It is like waves going up and down, and now is time to go down... I think...
I pretty much agree to what you are saying, but people are not going to follow. This is exactly why depression is needed and will happen - to force people to stop relying on governments and start thinking for themselves and taking care of themselves...
Sure I may be wrong, but this is how I see it...