Christ or Muhammad?
78Read this first.
I am allowing discussions again on this hub. I will not participate personally in them. All comments must be approved by me before they can be seen. No comments which attack another will be allowed. I will simply delete them.
Let's keep this as civil as possible.
Portrait of Muhammad
Prophecy
Muslims believe Muhammad to be the prophet God. Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. They believe the Old Testament prophecy to point at Muhammad. This hub will be about what Muhammad said and what Jesus said. It will be about their teachings and their lifestyles.
Let's start with one verse from the Qur'an. Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission." This reads like the Mafia demanding protection payments of shop and store owners. They don't actually say that the protection is from their organization. This is called Extortion. Why would Allah need to extort money from infidels?
An earlier verse is Qur'an:9:5"Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war." This verse contradicts the previous one I posted here. One says kill them all the other say demand a protection tax from them.
This is only one of many examples of terror in the Qur'an. I also realize that this translation may not be perfect but I believe it to be very close. If anyone has a better translation please let me know in the comments section, and post the translation if you don't mind.
The Sermon on the Mount
The teachings of Jesus are of love toward one another. The commission He gave all believers is to spread the gospel of Christ to all the world.
Mat 11:4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see: Mat 11:5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them. Mat 11:6 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.
You can see that everything Jesus did was good. He harmed no man or woman ever when He walked this earth. Muhammad would have killed those who wanted their sight restored or any other illness healed.
A commandment Jesus gave to the disciples is found written in the New Testament.
Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
This commandment is for all that follow Him.
The real Muhammad
More Teaching of Muhammad
Bukhari:V4B52N220 "Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been made victorious with terror.'"
Qur'an:8:12 "I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle."
Islam is called by many a "Religion of Peace" but according to their own prophet, it is a religion of war and of genocide. Anyone who doesn't follow their teachings will be killed. They will be terrorized. So much for the religion of peace.
Tabari IX:25 "By Allah, I did not come to fight for nothing. I wanted a victory over Ta'if so that I might obtain a slave girl from them and make her pregnant."
Muhammad was also a pedophile. He married Aisha when she was 7 years old. He was 53 at the time and his marriage to her was consummated when she turned 9 years old. This was a common thing to do for Muslims and still is today. I have read stories of how girls are sometimes raped anally so they can still be called virgins if and when they are to be married. They are treated worse than animals.
Qur'an 24:58 "Believers, let your slave girls, and those who have not come to puberty, ask permission on three occasions: before dawn, while you take off your clothes at midday, and after the night prayer. These are your times of undress - times of privacy for you. Outside those times it is not wrong for them to move about: Thus does Allah make clear the Signs."
I may be off a little here but it seems what Muhammad is saying is to allow them to come into your private room during the times that you undress. This is really sickening to me. The girls who have not yet come to puberty going in to be with men while they're undressed.
Anyone who has a conscience knows that this is a sick thing for any young girl to go through.
Jesus Taught
Matthew 5
1. And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
2. And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
3. Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6. Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7. Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8. Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9. Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10. Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Jesus taught us to be blessed. he also told us that many would revile us and hate us for our witness of His power and authority. He taught us to be pure in heart, meek, and merciful. He taught us to hunger and thirst after righteousness.
He taught nothing about killing those who don't believe. Imagine how bad it would be if He had taught that. Christians and Muslims all fighting against everyone and one another. Just imagine the terrorists that would be loosed on the world if Jesus had taught the same things that Muhammad had taught.
The warfare a Christian fights is a spiritual warfare. It isn't flesh and blood as Islam says. It is principalities and powers that we fight against. We can only have the victory through Jesus Christ and His blood. When Jesus died on the cross His blood sealed the deal. The debt was paid and man was made free to choose for himself whom he would serve.
Words of Satan in the "prophets" Mouth
Then Gabriel came to the Messenger of God and said, "Muhammad, what have you done? You have recited to the people that which I did not bring to you from God, and you have said that which was not said to you."
Then the messenger of God was much grieved and feared God greatly, but God sent down a revelation to him, for He was merciful to him, consoling him and making the matter light for him, informing him that there had never been a prophet or a messenger before him who desired as he desired and wished as he wished but that Satan had cast words into his recitation, as he had cast words on Muhammad's tongue.
Then God canceled what Satan had thus cast, and established his verses by telling him that he was like other prophets and messengers, and revealed: "Never did we send a messenger or a prophet before you but that when he recited (the Message) Satan cast words into his recitation (umniyyah). God abrogates what Satan casts. The God established his verses. God is knower, wise. (174)
http://www.answeringislam.info/Responses/Saifullah
SirDent: According to this, Muhammad spoke the words of Satan himself. Muslims the book of Deuteronomy tells of the coming Prophet who is like Moses. They say that Muhammad is the prophet.
Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. This verse is the one used to point to Muhammad as being the prophet. But there's more. Two verse later it is written
Deu 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
Now it seems very straightforward. Muhammad spoke words that Satan put in his mouth saying they were from God. He later said that they were not from God but from Satan himself. Read the second verse again and see what is stated about those who prophesy falsely. Of course, Allah can change his mind about things. This would make him imperfect wouldn't it? Why wasn't Muhammad stoned to death for speaking the words of Satan?
Also realize that God did not call Muhammad. According to Islam's own book, the angel Gabriel called Muhammad. No other prophet in the history of the Bible was called by an angel.
More Violence in the Qur'an
Qur'an 2:39"Those who disbelieve and reject Our revelations are the dwellers of the Fire, they shall abide therein forever."
Qur'an 2:59"But the transgressors [the Jews] changed the word from that which had been told to them for another, so We sent upon the wrongdoers a punishment from the heaven because of their rebelling against Allah's obedience.
Qur'an 2:65"And indeed you [Jews] knew those among you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath. We [Allah] said to them: "Be you monkeys, despised and rejected."
Qur'an 2:67"And remember when Moses said to his people: 'Verily, Allah commands you that you slaughter a cow.' (The 'story' of the cow - which has no basis in the Bible - follows, which tells the faithful how the Jews attempted, unsuccessfully, to deceive and outwit Allah: 67-73)"
Qur'an 2:74"Then after that your hearts [Jews] were hardened and became as stones or even worse in hardness. And indeed, there are stones out of which rivers gush forth and indeed, there are stones which split asunder so that water flows from them, and indeed, there are stones which fall down for fear of Allah. And Allah is not unaware of what you do."
Qur'an 2:77"Know they [Jews] not that Allah knows what they conceal and what they reveal?"
Qur'an 2:80"And they [Jews] say, 'Hell-fire shall not touch us but for a few hundred days.' Say (O Muhammad): Have you taken a covenant from Allah, so that Allah will not break his covenant? Or is it that you say of Allah what you know not?"
Qur'an 2:85:"Then do you [Jews] believe in a part of the Scripture and reject the rest? Then what is the recompense of those who do so among you, except disgrace in the life of this world, and on the Day of Resurrection they shall be consigned to the most grievous torment.
Qur'an 2:86"Their torment [the Jews] shall not be lightened nor shall they be helped."
Qur'an 2:87"And indeed, we gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of Messengers ... Is it that whenever there came to you [Jews] a Messenger with what you yourselves desired not, you grew arrogant? Some, you disbelieved and some, you killed."
Qur'an 2:88"And they [the Jews] say: 'Our hearts are wrapped' (i.e., do not hear or understand Allah's Word.) Nay, Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so little is that which they believe."
Qur'an 2:89"And when there came to them [the Jews], a Book (this Qur'an) from Allah confirming what is with them [the Torah and Gospel], although aforetime they had invoked Allah (for coming of Muhammad) in order to gain victory over those who disbelieved, then when there came to them that which they had recognised, they disbelieved in it. So let the Curse of Allah be on the disbelievers."
Qur'an 2:92"And indeed Moses came to you [Jews] with clear proofs, yet you worshipped the calf after he left, and you were wrongdoers."
Qur'an 2:94"Say to them [the Jews]: 'If the Home of the hereafter with Allah is indeed for you especially and not for others, of mankind, then long for death if you are truthful.'
Qur'an 2:95"But they will never long for it because of what their hands have done. And Allah is All-Aware of the wrongdoers.
There are still many many more of these verses. I got these froma website that states
QUOTATIONS BY CHAPTER AND VERSE FROM THE TRANSLATION OF THE QURAN SANCTIONED BY THE HIGHEST RELIGIOUS MUSLIM AUTHORITIES IN SAUDI ARABIAMy Conclusion
As I stated in the first paragraph, the translation of the Qur'an that I used may not be exactly right. I still believe it to at least be close to being exact. If anyone has a better translation please let me know. To my knowledge, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the United States. It is scary to think that these same verses from the Qur'an will be followed by thousands upon thousands of US citizens.
There are a lot of articles/rumors going around that Barack Obama is a Muslim. What is true and what is not true I can't tell you. I do know that if he is then he has been lying for a very long time. Muhammad didn't care if he lied or not. From what I researched and found out, he is a liar, a murderer, a pedophile and a thief. He is a false prophet who should have been killed when he prophesied falsely and even admitted that Satan had given him the message.
Jesus was completely sinless. He went about doing good all of His time on this earth. He never harmed anyone, but at the same time, He never condoned sin. He knows what it takes to make it to heaven, while Muhammad promised virgins to those who make it to heaven. What about the women who are Muslim? What do they get? I haven't run across anything that says anything about women making it to heaven in the Qur'an.
Jesus is the way the truth and the life. No man can come to the Father, but by Him. He died on a cross for the sins of everyone. It is a free gift offered to even the most vile person. I wrote a poem a little over a year ago. It is titled Jesus Died For You Too It is written to be easily understood, while yet maintaining the truth. Other hubs I have that can help you to believe in the one true way will be linked below.
After everything is done
God's Word is clear in what it takes to be in Him. One must accept Jesus as their Savior with repentance of sins.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
It is the will of God that every man be saved. It is not His will that any should perish, but that everyone comes to repentance. That being said, God gave us freedom to choose. Some will choose God, others will choose to follow after their own lusts.
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Comments
This is for you Maddie. Can be found at http://i-cias.com/e.o/islam.htm
THEOLOGY AND IDEOLOGYThe teaching of Islam is that there is only one God. The original teachings of the two religions was exactly the same as what is found in Islam today, but man has altered the lore given to both groups. Nevertheless, this teaching in Islam, has made Muslims show a lot of respect for both Christians and Jews, as they are considered People of the book, ahl al-kitab.
thegecko says:16 minutes ago
The first part of your article is about 1,100 words, but your conclusion and after is around 1,500 words. How can a conclusion by longer than the actual explanation? From a structural standpoint it would appear you made way more inferences than you provided evidence for =D
However, I'm just pulling your chain. Its because you continue your argument after the conclusion. Perhaps you should consider re-organizing the Hub.
SirDent: I understand what you mean now. I addeed more to the hub after all the comments came about. Maybe I should reorganize, but I actually thought it had died down to where noone was going to comment anymore.
SirDent:
Re: your response to Ahmidtruth, aren't you picking out what you want out of the Qur'an to make your point, and ignoring the rest? How is that any different?
The first part of your article is about 1,100 words, but your conclusion and after is around 1,500 words. How can a conclusion by longer than the actual explanation? From a structural standpoint it would appear you made way more inferences than you provided evidence for =D
However, I'm just pulling your chain. Its because you continue your argument after the conclusion. Perhaps you should consider re-organizing the Hub.
I'm not sure what you mean Gecko. Would you care to elaborate?
I just noticed your conclusion appears to be as long or longer than the rest of the Hub :)
Ahmidtruth, I appreicate your input here. You made some very good points. Muslims do believe the gospels to be corrupt and most of the Old Testament also. They choose what they want and use it to pint to Muhammad as being a great prophet of God, but they fail to realize who God really is.
I hope there are some good replies to your commnt here. You have done well.
Why do Muslims consider the gospels corrupt? Did not Saint Paul speak of Muhammad, 520 years before Muhammad was born, in 50 A.D.? Galatians 1:8-9:
“But even if we or an Angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!”
This applies precisely to Muhammad. He claimed that an angel spoke and gave him the Qur'an.
Is this angel (or celestial being) and Muhammad eternally condemned? Did not Saint John speak of Muhammad 500 years earlier? Revelation 19:20:
“But the beast was captured, and with him the False Prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the Mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.”- "mark of the beast" (Islam, 'submitting to the will of the beast') Islam is faith and fear in the beast; to submit is to take on his mark.1
- "image" (Kaaba; his statue may still be inside)
Is Allah of the Qur'an eager to throw humanity into "the Fire and never let them out" (Sura 5:37); eager to "roast" humans "replacing roasted skin with fresh skins" only to "roast" again and again (Sura 4.56); with a penalty "double for all!" (Sura 7.38); eager to see heads "covered in fire" and "scalding water," and eager to have humanity "flogged with irons" (Sura 22.19-21); eager to hear humans "cry endlessly for help" as their bodies "turn to ash" (Sura 21.15); eager to "destroy entire populations" (Sura 17.16); eager to fill hell with humans until "hell is full" (Sura 50:30)? This Is Allah of the Qur'an (a fallen angel or other being)...but Not the God of Abraham nor of Jesus Christ. I know God... and this is Not Him.
I do not wish to be your worst nightmare; I do desire to be a blessing to you. Islam is truly the greatest stumbling block to salvation thru Jesus Christ.2
Who wrote the Qur'an? Was there a witness to the claims the Qur'an makes? No.3 (Muhammad never witnessed anything, he only Received the Qur'an. Sura 24.54, his "duty is only to preach..") Should you believe the Author of the Qur'an and follow along blindly?! Is not the author a celestial being, like a fallen angel? Do not angels know what the Almighty knows and can they twist the truth? Umar ibnu’l Khattab tells that Muhammad "shivered, his mouth foamed and he roared like a camel," (typical of demon possession). According to Amr ibn Sharhabil, Muhammad told his wife Khadija that he believed to be possessed by demons! According to Al Waqidi, Muhammad feared the symbol of a cross!
Unlike Muslims, I know that my salvation is sure. Meanwhile, not even Muhammad was sure! Sura 46.9 and Hadith 5:266, "by allah, though I am the apostle of allah, yet I do not know what allah will do with me." Muhammad's bones lie buried in Medina but Jesus is alive and in heaven.
Good works alone will not save you. But rather if you confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord and believe this in your heart. As King David said, "my Lord said unto my Lord." The Almighty has given Jesus a great portion among the greatest; king of kings and prince of peace.
Remember Jesus' commandment; "love your neighbor." God's laws and the prophets can be summed up by: "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." The Qur'an and the Muslim allah fail in this teaching.
Christians have a personal relationship with God and know Him. Islam is only obedience and repetition. With Christ there is firmness in belief and knowledge; superstitions do not exist. This letter is difficult for the faithful Muslim. Even so, may the reader be blessed even unto salvation thru Jesus Christ our Savior. The Truth will set you free.
1 Mark on forehead: the mind being the seat of knowledge and belief. Mark on right hand: the left is not used for such things as Muslims know. (Rev 13:16)
2 "For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness." (2 Thes 2:11) This truth is to 'love your neighbor'. The Qur'an and the Muslim allah fail in this teaching.
3 The miracles and crucifixion of Jesus were witnessed by many and documented; over 500 witnessed Jesus ascend to heaven after his resurrection from the dead; [The Test of two to three witnesses, Deuteronomy 19:15, 17:6, Mathew 18:16, John 8:13] [Qur'an, test of two to four witnesses, Sura 4:15, though it does not stand on this principle - the Qur'an stands by itself; one author who changes history but with no witnesses]. God expects a person to believe another who has at least two to three witnesses; God can judge a person guilty for believing in the Qur'an because it has No witnesses to its claims and yet calls a lie an account which has many witnesses.
Thanks you once again Silly for the comment. I appreciate it very much. One thing for sure, this hub has touched a nerve with many. Some because it is truth, others for different reaons.
AFTER READING SOME OF THE REPLIES AIMED AT SIR DENT,, I FEEL THAT HE TOUCHED A NERVE IN SOME OF YOU AND YOU ALL CANT STAND IT THAT HE IS RIGHT SO THATS WHY YOU ATTACK HIM SO BAD,,,,,,SO ALL I CAN SAY IS KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK SIR DENT,,,,,,LET THE TRUTH COME OUT
Thanks for the comment Silly. I appreciate it very much.
THANK FOR THIS,, INTERESTING STUDY,, LEARNED SOMETHINGS I DIDNT KNOW
No livelonger, I won't do that. Muhammad was a violent man who did what he wanted to whomever he wanted. His followers do the same today.
I'm wondering if you can include a picture of Andres Serrano's "Piss Christ" below the Mohammad cartoon, to show an image that Christians also found incredibly offensive.
Hal, I already read it. I also approved your comment just to show who is really ignorant and hateful. Your attack on me has been noted by nearly everyone in Hubpages.
You have called my hub here a hate hub. I call it writing what I see. Your hubs have attacked me personally. I attacked nobody. Do what you want, but rest assured you will pay the price for your attacks on me.
You likely don't have the courage to make this comment public, but go read
http://hubpages.com/hub/How-The-Great-Accomplishme
and learn how not to be an ignorant fool.
{{I am still waiting for someone to show me something good that has come from Islam.}}
Islam has given to Muslims a clear code for living a good life, in its five pillars of Islam. This is all that any religion can do - give to its people a belief system and code for living on earth. That is all that Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism have also done.
Unless you're suggesting that Christianity give us the industrial revolution and steam engines??
I am still waiting for someone to show me something good that has come from Islam.
Like everyone has pointed out... that is a question to be brought on an individual basis. If you look at any religious group as a whole, it will fail close scrutiny to adhering to its own belief system.
thegecko says:2 days ago
Wait... don't both Christians and Muslims believe in the Ten Commandments?
SirDent: If they follow the ten commandments, why is there so much killing from them?
I am still waiting for the pluses from the side of Islam. What is good about them? What have they cointributed to society as a whole? etc. . .
SirDent - criticism I have of Christianity - in response to your last post - how convenient for Christians.
Please delete my last post. I posted it after erroneously thinking my earlier posts had been deleted. I see now they have not. Apologies. Sorry!
I'll bite Ralph. Make a list of the pluses of Islam. We can go from there if you wish.
The pluses of the teachings of Christ are this. The law says if you sin you die. Jesus took then place of each and every sinner by dying in their place. He paid the penalty for your sins and mine. I no longer have to pay the penalty of the law, if I merely receive Jesus. It is that simple.
I'll be waiting for your response. :)
You titled your hub "Christ or Muhammad?" as if you were going to provide an objective consideration of the two historical religious figures, but you proceeded to provide a one-sided screed excoriating Muhammad and praising Christ. I happen to have been born and raised a Christian, however, it seems to me that both Muhammad and Christ inspired religions with long histories, good and less so, and millions of adherents. Why not deal with the pluses and minuses of both. Why not respect both for their good points and criticize their faults.
In the case of Christ, it may be useful to distinguish "Christ" from Christianity which has a checkered history and and a diverse present which offers much to criticize--such as the widespread pedophilia covered up by the Catholic hierarchy, an unhealthy preoccupation with sexuality-virginity,-homosexuality, masturbation and the like; demanding belief in creationism and other ridiculous denials of centuries of science, opposition to potentially life saving stem cell research in the name of right to life while at the same time supporting capital punishment, etc,, none of which would be condoned by Jesus if anyone were able to ask him.
I believe they do, indirectly.
thegecko says:33 hours ago
Wait... don't both Christians and Muslims believe in the Ten Commandments?
SirDent: I have no idea what Muslims follow except the Qur'an.
Hexxor, for some reason I had your comment denied. I don't know why but I must have clicked the wrong choice for it. I have questions to ask you and any other person who wants to comment. Can you refute the Qur'anic verses I posted above? Can you show them in the true meaning as many have said they are taken out of context, while yet failing to put them in proper context?
The questions above I ask of everyone who has commented here. It seems everyone wants to attack other verses or people other than what this hub is written about.
I am trying to stay out of this debate, but the comments warrant my participation. I will post as minimal as possible.
Being Christian myself, I firmly believe that Satan can twist anything to do what he wants. Called 'the Great Deceiver', there's a lot of things He and his followers can do. First, he cans end spirits as messengers of light. I'm not denying Mohammed saw a spirit, the question is what kind (good or evil)? Same thing with the mormons. Joseph Smith saw something, no doubt in my mind whatsoever. The question is, what?
After the apostolic church there was a decline in miracles and actual visions of divine purpose. Therefore, my understanding and convictions say that mormonism was created outside the actual written word of God (book of Mormon is NOT the Bible in any way shape or form), and so I believe Mormons are not a real sect of Christianity. Not as nearly cut and dry is Islam. Islam pulls text straight out of the OT, but diverges entirely from what the church has established as the Holy Scriptures (numerous councils pre-1000 A.D.).
Islam and Christianity simply cannot coexist together as universal truths if you believe either one. I've never seen a muslim say that Jesus was the Christ. He's a 'good prophet.' I've also never seen a Christian claim Allah is YWHW and that Mohammed is a holy prophet. It's a battle that will go on until the end of time, believe what you will. Either way, my convictions lead straightway to the cross and away from Allah, others will strongly disagree. Truth will eventually reign supreme, that much is sure.
Good article :)
In the future I think it is best not to compare two religions because it seems to have offended so many people. I still believe you had the freedom of speech to publish this, but since so many people have come down on you so harshly for doing so I would step back from comparing religions. I think as Christians it is better just to focus on our own faith anyway, but this is just my suggestion and you can do as you like. What I find wrong is so many people acting indignant about you making hateful comments when there has been no recourse for others who do the same thing. However, not all things are equal in this lifetime.
"Christianity, the religion of love" - HAH!Just look at this:Luke 14:26 "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren,and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. "Consider the following regarding self imposed mutilation:Matthew 5:29 " And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."Matthew 5:30 " And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. "I wonder what is required for a pedophylic priest to cut off, if that part of his body made him sin?Would he need to cut off his testicles or his penis? perhaps both?The other alternative is to renounce Christianism completely...The idea behind this is that if you are a Christian, you have to follow the laws of Christianism. If you dont follow the laws of Christianism, you cannot count yourself as a Christian.
The big problem with Christianity is that it dont have strict limit of what is and what is not Christianism. It is a vague religion. A principle of that the strong should help the weak and the rich should help the poor could count as religion. To establish fair taxation laws so that the rich pay more taxes than the poor could be counted as Christianism, but it could also count as "Socialism". In todays world Christians are among the most Anti-Socialistic people on the earth.
Another part of Christianism that is not regulated is wars. A Christian may wage war against another Christian, but it is not clear if such an action should be punished with hell or not. In Islam the sin of one believer killing another gives hell as a reward.
So, "the way" you follow as a Christian is something that is not clearly defined, a very vague thing. Christianity by default is NOT democratic, it does not define a constitution and it is poor on laws. "Do good and forbid evil" is something that Islam teaches, but there is not an equivalent in Christianity.
So he says "follow me, im the path...". ok, sounds good, but where is the path, the laws, the enlightment? The knowledge?
Besides that, not a single word written by Jesus Himself is preserved unto this day. It is all hearsayings by other people. So the message that Jesus brought forward is NOT available.What did he wrote with his own hand? where is it? - Bring me those words if you are truthful...
Ralph - Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia is the state religion - a fundamentalist view of the Koran. 26 mill people. In Iran - Sharia law is imposed on 80 million people. Gaza has recently succumbed with 600 new Mosques built or converted in just 16 months where people are being forced to attend. Lebanon is virtually devoid of Christians in just 6 years. Pakistan is at least 1/3 fundamentalists; and the groups there support and teach in the Madrassas - the ones that taught the Taliban. In Sudan - 300,000 people have been slaughtered by the Arab Sunni majority following Islamist precepts.
Here's the point. There is no point in pointing out that it doesn't exist as if saying it doesn't exist will make it go away. When most people talk about these things they aren't really talking about the peaceful Muslims anyway. Why would they. It is almost always the non-peaceful ones being talked about.
The Iranian revolution goes back to the 60's when Khomeini was thrown out. In Saudi Arabia back to the 1800's when Ibn Saud brought Wahhabism. In the Sudan, the English fought a war with 100,000 radicals who thought the Mahdi had come with his prophet. Winston Churchill was a yoeman saw it - and wrote a book about it when he was only 18. (The River War) It was awfully brutal.
Many people standing up for Islam do so as if radicalism is happening in a vaccum - or as if what is happening is relegated to a few 100,000 radicals. Nothing could be further from the truth.
These radical movements spring up on their own - independently of each other and use the Koran and hadith as their text. Their websites are full of qoutes in context.
One must always remember that these movements not only want to destroy the West - but they want to destroy Islam as it is practiced today. They claim they want to take it back to it's origins. There's only a few places they can get these notions - and these movements have broken out throughout history - not just in our day.
So once again, what are we to blame it on. How can we discuss it if we make off limits all things that can help us understand it - especially by pointing out the obvious - that most Muslims are peaceful. Most Germans were peaceful in the 30's as well - but the Nazi theology was in full view for anyone willing to see it. Do you know what the peaceful Christians said then? They said, but Germany is a Christian nation - that could never happen.
People rip Christianity on here all the time. The religion forum is full of antagonizing banter yet no one seems to rally around the Christians. People love to wave the free speech flag until someone says something they don't like. Good job expressing how yoy feel
Wait... don't both Christians and Muslims believe in the Ten Commandments?
Prophesy Teacher, where do you get the 150 million extremist figure. In the Detroit area where I live there are plenty of highly assimilated, non-extremist Muslims. If any are extremists among them they keep their views to themselves. My impression is that the majority of Muslims in the world today are not extremists. It's a serious error of fact to equate Islam with extremism. Many extremists today are Muslims but most Muslims are not extremists.
Ralph Deeds - if one can not blame the extremism of 150 million followers of Fundamental Islam on Islam - what then may we blame it on?
Sir Dent, Your hub is a one-sided attack on Islam and an apology for Christianity. I have never read the Koran, but I don't trust your highly selective quotes. The Bible is also full of contradictory and barbaric passages. The truth is that there are fanatics in nearly every religion--Christian, Islamic, Judaism and others. For some strange reason nearly all religious extremists of many faiths appear to me to have an unhealthy and uninformed preoccupation with sexuality--virginity, masturbation, birth control, etc. Countless atrocities and wars have occurred in the name of Jesus. Muslims hardly have a monopoly on this tendency. Uncivilized Muslim extremists such in the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and certain Sunni and Shiites are causing a lot of trouble in the world today. This cannot be denied, but that does not mean that their actions can be blamed on the Muslim faith.
I appreciate all the comments. I do mean all of them, even from the beginning comment. Comments are now once again being approved, but only those which are civil. No personal attacks on anyone will be tolerated.
No comments will be seen by others until I approve them myself on this hub.
Sir Dent,
After viewing a hub that was a tirade against you, I had to investigate in person and see for myself what all this commotion was about. From all the comments, you hit a nerve with many people. I am reminded of what Paul asked, "Do I become your enemy becasue I tell you the truth?"
The hub is strong. I am glad that there are some places where freedom of speech still exists and am glad that you are not intimidated by those who rail against you.
Best Regards,
J D Murrah
someone say THE HOLY QURAN is like a story book nothing else. plz visit folloing link and try to understand miracles of QURAN.
The root of the discussion really lies here. Islam as it's practiced by the mainstream is not violent. However, Islam as it "was" practiced in the first three centuries - which followed the Quran exactly - was. Of that, there can be no doubt.
I think the misjudgment here is to have painted Islam in a broad stroke as it applies to today.
Never the less, Islam is being practiced by Islamists and radicals as if it were the days immediately after Mohamed. They even quote the verses above as their primary texts and justification. They have history as their proof that it was originally practiced that way. Otherwise - they must simply be "Misinterpreting" the verses like so many here say that Mr Dint is.
But the problem with that illogic is that the Islamists aren't just making this stuff up - they have proof. It's in the Quran. They are not hijacking a peaceful religion at all. They in effect are attempting to return it to it's original methods and roots. The so-called peacefulness of modern Islam came about over a period of many centuries. The Islamists are concerned about this historical drift. Their writings are full of condemnation for the adherents practicing it peacefully.
They're mad at them and us.
They in turn believe that the Islam of modern peace - has itself been hijacked by the Islam "is peace" crowd. They're merely trying to return it to it's foundations - thus they are fundamentalists.
I don't see anyone here writing the Islamist message boards and demanding them to stop insulting the prophet - or scathing them to remove their radical Islamist rhetoric on pain of being reported to the peace police. Certainly not with their real name and address. Go figure.
Islam is submission - not peace. And if the fundamentalists have their way - they intend to slaughter everyone into a peaceful submission. Nothing could be clearer.
In the West we are uncertain as to what truth is; in fact, it's impossible for modern America to discuss it. If truth is at the discretion of the individual then no truth really exists. It's a miracle our founders agreed on anything that was "self evident".
For one to say that Islam is peace is the same as an Islamist fundamentalist saying that Islam is Jihad. (or the relativist that says we are all wrong and we're all right. So in their mind - with their logic - we must wait until our day of submission comes and then we'll see who's right.)
Who's right is learned through discussion. Who's wrong is learned through war. I would much rather discuss the issue incorrectly than not at all. Otherwise, if we follow the advice of the reactionists above - we can't condemn Islamists either. You have already decided what's right by not allowing discussion - no matter how misguided.
And that my liberal minded discussionists is a cunundrum your mental gymnastics can not circumnavigate.
This must be an interesting topic.
I am a Christian and I believe that Jesus Christ is He who He claimed Himself to be. John 10:30. His Jewish crowd did not misunderstand Him when they were going to stone Him to death. When He asked them to specifially tell them why hey were going to stone Him to death, they replied, "not what you did (miracle of love) but what you said (John 10:30).
In our human pre and written history, it was all about Him. History before He was born is BC (before Christ) and history after birth is AD. So whether you are an atheist, Muslim, Buddism or Christian...the date on the check or letter you write today reminds us that 2,000 or more years ago, His human intervention into our humanity has influenced the world with twelve ordinary men who became extra ordinary men (Acts 4:13) thru His power (Acts 4:12).
sir dent,
a fine idea, people are starting to get a bit nasty. Oh the power of words.
Religion is unfortunately a good thing AND a bad thing....i'm a strong believer in individual responsibility and moral decision making. I would rather come to my own decisions of what is right and what is wrong, as long as it does not harm anybody else. Thus, i wouldnt steal, murder, fraud etc etc. Religion tends to provide a guide to some of these moral values....however, religion tends to become a collective state and a govt in it's own right. that's when things get difficult and conflicting
As for the part about hiding the comments, I think hubbers are allowed to do that. I have seen several other hubbers who do this on their hubs. Also, I would like to mention those hubs are of a controversial nature and I think they do it for that reason. So in that matter Sirdent you did not do anything different than they did, and as you said the comments were getting out of hand.
I had the comments hidden for a few days. I was thinking of adding them to the hub. Of course I thought about whether it was legal to do that or not.
I will accept no more comments on this hub. All new comments will be deleted. I tried to allow the comments to keep going but it got out of hand. That is totally my fault and I accept responsibility for it, but I stand by my article.
This comment was made in the article and I did notice it when I first read the article but I stumbled on it and I thought I would correct it. Sirdent said:"Muslims believe Muhammad to be the prophet God" I would just like to say that we do not say the Prophet Muhhamed PBUH is a god we just believe that he is a prophet because as muslims we do not put anyone above God or even close to him.
P.S.
VP start dishing the facts.
No problem, Rowda. I understand it was an honest error. I believe our mutual friend Viral Prospector should bone up on a certain man named St. Paul who single handedly rewrote virtually every word of the Gospels!
Viral Prospector, if you had any factual basis to your vitriolic xenophobia, you should be presenting it to bolster your poor excuse for an argument. Are you dense enough to believe that the Holy Qu'ran instructs Muslims to kill people today? What kind of perverted Sunday School did you attend?
Hmm... I also wonder where our other friend SirDent has been in the last day or so...
Sorry Hal,I meant to make that comment for VP. I appoligze.
VP nice try of tryig to runaway with the truth how about you try and act mature. And stop trying to hide from the facts read anywere and ask anyone and they will tell you that the bible has been re-written over one hundred times. So how about you start doing your research before you start preaching and stop playing your little game because you are only embarrasing your self.
Rowda;
Poor Hal is going to have a lot of work to do, huh? I am not sure why you are so upset with Hal, though. Still, your comment about the Bible being changed many ties is just another lie. Hal probably will tell you that, too, though.
Rowda, I do believe you directed that last comment to Viral Prospector, not to me.
Viral Prospector, what kind of silly game are you playing? Do you expect any holy book written millennia ago to state "In July of 2008 go out and kill and rape so and so?" I happen to have a real Bible. I don't know what candy-coated rose-colored goody-two-shoes Bible you're reading from.
I stated very clearly in my Hub response to this seething mass of prejudice and myopia that "tossing out of context quotes across the theological trenches like hand grenades is a pointless exercise." So, VP, I'm sure that there's a hate rally somewhere that is missing you. Run along now, like a good little bigot.
Hal,
How about you try a read what you are writing slowly. You want the truth then stop looking at your side of the facts go learn arabic and read the scripture from the real Quran word for word other than the translations, and you will see that it as well is not telling us to go out and kill today.
and you said: "Go recheck whatever alleged mistranslation you referenced. Better yet, toss it. Get yourself a real Bible, and we can dialogue." well how about you practice what you preach and toss out these alleged translations you have of the Quran and get the real Quran and then you can dialouge with the people who can actually read.
you also said: "Find me one example that says that God commands us to go out and kill today or go take their women today? You can't. That is a lie." Again practice what you preach and find me were it says this in the exact Quran.
And FYI the Quran has been the same and never changed once form when it was first brought down to earth and the bible has been changed plenty of times. So how about you go get your facts striaght before you start thinking you know more than everyone else.
Hal;
Thank you for interjecting some humor is this otherwise dreary discourse. My first advice is to try harder to read posts that people make. Let me quote them for you, so you can review them. Please slow down this time, so you do not miss the words. "Find me one example that says that God commands us to go out and kill today or go take their women today? You can't. That is a lie." Please take note of the word "today". It holds great meaning in the post.
"Post them! However, first read them carefully. You will find zero comments telling us today to go out and kill. Please read it so you can see how wrong you are." This second quote also contains the word "today". That is another quote from my post. Again, just take a deep breath and be sure you catch the meaning of the post. Again, it all hinges on the word today, doesn't it?
Of course, no scripture that you referenced contains such commands from God. Everyone knows that. There are none anywhere in the Bible that commands us to kill today. Everyone knows that.
So, what are you missing? You and I were not there thousands of years ago, but historians are unanimous in classifying these as immensely uncivilized, brutal times. No Muslim, Jew or Christian would be so decieved. We share that understanding of ancient times. It was a time where God made decisions for the times. That has no impact on us today. He commands us to do the opposite as you seem to misunderstand, "thou shalt not kill." Most school children used to learn the ten commandments, but I realize that some did miss it as our society "progressed".
Go recheck whatever alleged mistranslation you referenced. Better yet, toss it. Get yourself a real Bible, and we can dialogue.
VP, you might want to familiarize yourself with the Bible before you go laying down challenges: "Find me one example that says that God commands us to go out and kill today or go take their women today? You can't. That is a lie."
2 Samuel 4:7 & 16:9, Deuteronomy 2:33-36, 7:1-2 & 17:3-5, Exodus 23:27, Romans 1:20-32, 1 Kings 2:8 & 10:7, Numbers 31:17-18... how many more do you want?
Aghast;
Perfect handle for you!
Aghast: This proves nothing more than that bigots can selectively quote anything to try to make an idiotic or - in this case - idiotic AND hateful point.
VP: Mirror anyone?
Aghast: The Bible - if you don't just stick with a few carefully selected quotes from the New Testament - is full of murder and mayhem and God instructing us to kill hostage men and children and take their women.
VP: You do not know anything that you are talking about. Find me one example that says that God commands us to go out and kill today or go take their women today? You can't. That is a lie.
Agahst: A Muslim trying to write a hub like yours proving that Christianity is a hateful and murderous religion, would have no trouble finding direct quotes in the Old Testament to prove it.
VP: Post them! However, first read them carefully. You will find zero comments telling us today to go out and kill. Please read it so you can see how wrong you are.
Aghast: So crawl back under your rock and hope that evolution - probably something else you don't believe in - will eventually do its work and turn you into a fully reasoning human being.
VP:" You sit there and call others "bigots", "idiotic" and "hateful"? That is by far the most hateful post I have read in this thread.
@ SirDent: DId you not see what I stated about the translation? I said if you have a better translation please let me know and post the verses here.Is it right to conclude on something that you yourself are not sure about . I am sorry to say but proving others religion wrong image will more likely outrage each and every preacher of that religion .Will you mind sharing the link from where you got those translations ? I would be more than happy to get you the real translations of each and every verse from Quran that you have used in this hub . Also many responders have written Quran with a "K" it only comes with a letter "Q" . Ever seen any one writing Queen with a "K" ??If you want the translations do not hesitate to drop me a fan mail .CheersKashif.
This proves nothing more than that bigots can selectively quote anything to try to make an idiotic or - in this case - idiotic AND hateful point. The Bible - if you don't just stick with a few carefully selected quotes from the New Testament - is full of murder and mayhem and God instructing us to kill hostage men and children and take their women.
A Muslim trying to write a hub like yours proving that Christianity is a hateful and murderous religion, would have no trouble finding direct quotes in the Old Testament to prove it.
So crawl back under your rock and hope that evolution - probably something else you don't believe in - will eventually do its work and turn you into a fully reasoning human being.
SirDent. Kindly address the issues that the last few responders have posted and the ones I have posed you on my Hub response to yours. Your statements are becoming more and more troubling and I fear that your true stripes are being exposed. Please ease my conscience and confirm to me and the others here that you are not just another in a long line of "hate mongerers."
Good morning -
To answer your question to me:
SirDent: "Would it be better for you if I posted a picture of Jesus drinking from a bucket of urine? Would that even it all out for you?"
No. But thanks for the offer. It speaks volumes on the quality of your thought proceses.
And later, you said to me:
SirDent: "If you don't like what I write or what I say, why do you keep coming here?"
It may be your hub but it's a public arena. I go where I like, thanks.
And finally:
SirDent: "The truth of the matter is this. All Muslims hate Israel."
You state this as a 'truth' even when several individuals have said that they do not hate Israel. So they are not telling you the truth? You are playing games here, setting up men of straw so you can burn them down. But no-one is fooled.
Sir Dent you should see this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaWn-ZBDpNg
or this page
http://www.redicecreations.com/specialreports/2006
about extreme hostility of Jew's Talmud against Christianity.
I'm not condemning or spread hatred against Jews, this is just a comparison between Quran and Talmud.
Those verses you presented in this hub is directed against Quraisy NOT AGAINST Christians.
Muslim at that time were badly outnumbered,prosecuted, attacked and almost extinct.
Then these verses come for full counter attack instead of passiveness. Because silence meant annihilation and extinction.
But during total victory and Mecca conquest by muslim, there were no blood spilled and no looting inflicted against Quraisy. Quraisy's right is fully honored.
Ahlul Kitab, jews and christians, are embraced by muslims teaching. Even livestock butchered by Christians are good and halaal for muslims.
Muslims adore Jesus as a great prophet and Virgin Mary as faithful and good lady.
Let's be peaceful......no hatred.....no misunderstanding...the way I understand and respect Christianity
First I would like to tell Balisunset nice job because that is the truth. he explained it very well. as for the date i cant find exactly what time it was. Anyways im not here to convince you just to state my opinion. and its very easy to say what you are saying as the truth as well.
SirDent says:2 hours ago
The truth of the matter is this. All Muslims hate Israel. They blame Israel for everything that is wrong in their own countries. The Palestinian people were not a people before 1948. They were sent to Israel after Israel won their nation back. They migrated there from Jordan.Those nations I mentioned above were all against Israel ever since and even before. maybe Egypt isn't as outspoken against Israel as they once were, but they hate Israel and would love ot see it destroyed. Israel embarrassed Egypt in the 6 day war and then again in the early 70's.
--------------------------------------------------
My comment:
Muslim and jews have become brothers in Palestine for hundreds of year. They live peacefully and at the times of war, they defend their country side-by-side, they even massacred together by Crusaders.
But at 20th century, a few jews were seduced by Zionism that come from Europe and turn against their muslim brothers.
For decades Jews have terrorized and prosecuted their own brothers. Muslims farmers are expelled from their land and countless muslim communities were destroyed at 1940's.
See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_%28mandate%
Thousands upon thousand of muslims are killed by jews in 20th and 21st centuries, by continuous bombing on Palestinian homes. Yet their muslim brothers are the one who branded as terrorist because of a few terrorism acts. While countless bombings by Israeli jets that killed so many innocent muslim, went unnoticed.
Even almost all UN Resolution against Israel are vetoed and annuled.
see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nation
I dream of a nation where muslims and jews have a peaceful country in Palestine once again, where everybody have equal rights, no killing and no hatred.
Sharing and justice are the key for peace in Palestine.
Rowda, I would love to see some facts on that subject. It's easy to claim it to be true.
First I would like to apologize if I might of offended anyone from my comments but when you feel that something you care about is being spoken about in a very cruel way you tend to get offended.
Now on the comment you made about Muslims and Isreal I say this as respectfully as possible, but please do not speak on behalf of all muslims and say that we all hate isreal and we blame them for everything that goes wrong in their countries, becasue this is not true. Palestine has been a country since way before the nineteen hundreds. Palestine dates back to hundred of centuries ago, i dont know the exact date but i willbe sure to get that if you are interested.
then in the nineteen hundreds after all the jews were being kicked out of the countries of germany and so on, the british told them they could go and take the land of Palestine and at first the jews went to go live there and they live in peace for a while untill the british supplied the jews with guns and other weapons and they began the war with palestine. And we do no have anything against jews its the isrealie government that we dislike becasue they ae taking what is not theirs and that is because they are zionist who believe the land is for the isrealies. but zionist consist of jews, christians and some muslims as well.
anways I can go for a while explaining this but it would be like a 10 page essay, so anyways maybe you should look into it a little more but noe of this is to change your opinion its just to inform you with facts.
Paraglider says:15 hours ago
Good post, jreuter. (your long one, 2 back) It has become clear that SirDent is predisposed to believe evil of Muslims. His brand of Christianity resembles his brand of patriotism. He is not content simply to hold a belief. He feels the need to disparage every belief system but his own. I believe that HubPages are in error for allowing him to post the cartoon of the prophet Muhammad as a suicide bomber. The defense of free speech is not a carte blanche for offensiveness.
SirDent: Believe what you want and say what you want. Would it be better for you if I posted a picture of Jesus drinking from a bucket of urine? Would that even it all out for you?
Have you ever made a mistake? Have you children ever made a mistake by not listening to what you said to them? Can you correct them without telling what they did wrong?
To tolerate something, means to put up with it no matter what. I tolerate other's beliefs, but I don't accept them as being right. If I didn't tolerate them, maybe then I would be a terrorist and try to kill them.
If you don't like what I write or what I say, why do you keep coming here?
The truth of the matter is this. All Muslims hate Israel. They blame Israel for everything that is wrong in their own countries. The Palestinian people were not a people before 1948. They were sent to Israel after Israel won their nation back. They migrated there from Jordan.
Those nations I mentioned above were all against Israel ever since and even before. maybe Egypt isn't as outspoken against Israel as they once were, but they hate Israel and would love ot see it destroyed. Israel embarrassed Egypt in the 6 day war and then again in the early 70's.
I am going to hide the comment capsule on this hub. Maybe I should have done it sooner. It has gotten out of whack and I'm to blame for it.
I will give until about this time tomorrow evening for final thought if anyone wants to add something.
jreuter says:15 hours ago
You really like to deal in generalizations, don't you sirdent? Egypt has been allied with Israel for quite some time now, since the camp david accords of '79, and Lebanon is not necessarily anti-Israel, nor pro-Israel.
SirDent; That's a very good comment. All of it even though I didn't put all of it here.
Thank you ahmed for clarifying. I appreciate it very much.
I think we speak much about that particular point, anyway .. let me tell the story, different way:
a female, is raped in absence of any witness, so she has 2 choices:
** to speak about, at this time it is a matter to get evidence, to capture the guilty.
** to keep silent, and it happened in most case, since the female nature is against (being exposed - reputationwise) - that time nobody knows, and the guilty becomes free.. but let me tell you, when a person is trying to rape (this is my opinion) will not travel with the vectim to another planet, so, she can cry, to bring attention, or to resist, and many evidences on the body would be there, if she go to the most stupid policeman, not to keep silent untill finishing everything, then to think what to do??
the only case for her to be guilty, if there are witnesses as i told before.
I think I clarified..
What if there are no witnesses ahmed? Most rapists do it alone and if others are watching I'm sure most of the thim they would be in on it also.
hi every one, with much respect,
unfortunately, I can't be with you (online) all time ..
Sorry to say, SirDent, it is not a war field, keep in mid all time, the people passing by this hub have differnt cultures, mentalities, religions, and traditions. So we have to realise that : we are all different, and as I said this is not the place, to show I or You or Others are correct .. never..
but let every person, tell his point of view, listen to them.
regarding: the woman is stoned to death even if she was raped because no one would be a witness
I am sure, you are misinformed about that, let us go step by step, a girl is raped, and nobody knows until she go some person and say: "I'am raped", if she has no witnesses, it wouln't be believed, (even after investigation) and left (do you think when a girl say I am raped, she will be killed for that??)
But if she has witnesses, it would be verified, up to checking the verginity, and ofcource you know about dna, that time, the male will be caught as a guilty, to be punished...
the only case, the female to be punished, if there are witneses for (zena) or adultry.
I hope, it become more clearer to you.
For me, I am against the idea of closing that hub, since I believe there will be contradiction all times.
it is a good, and a very good chance to know how others think, and to know about their faith and beliefs (regardless if they are right or wrong)..
My meaning when last I made a post to this hub was directed to the fact that it is a serious insult to persons of the muslim faith, of which I am not, to show images of the profit Muhammad.
In some western countries, like Denmark, publishing an image such as is shown in this hub has cause serious social problems.
Actually, myself, I have never understood why but feel we should all respect each other as much as possible. I did not mean to imply that anyone participating in this thread of comments was stupid.
Never the less, if one is aware of what, albeit, hard to believe things have happened in more than a few countries after such images have been published, one might be more careful and respectful of others religions. That applies whether we understand, appreciate, denegrate or what ever.
Sorry if my previous post offended.
I am not upset, I posted this before I saw your response. I could not delete it after that. I am always calm as a flower.
whoah, who said I was arguing? My comment was to sirdent and him alone. If you've got issue with rowda, take it up with rowda. geesh, sweetie, take a couple of deep breaths, I'm not your enemy.
I am done with this topic. However, I do not believe Sirdent is anymore disrespectful than some other hubbers in this community. One of my friends on here posted an opinion to one lady's hub and she deleted it. I also posted an opinion and this lady deleted it. My statement was fair and objective and with no explanation she just deleted it. At least Sirdent does not do this. There are so many mean remarks made in the forums here it is ridiculous. However, this topic is becoming stale as Balisunset mentioned.
Rowda's Post To Me:
Second sweetie pie you have no write to speek of the kifes of muslim women and say they are abused because that is the most ignorant thing i have heard every country and religion have there flaws just becasue in iran there are extremists does not mean that has anything to do with there religion it is culture. No one discriminates against the christian americans who abuse there wifes, and murder, rape, and practice polygamy. we have respect to know that no one is perfect and every country, culture, race, religion, ect. has their flaws.
She flaunts the word ignorant too much.
She addressed it to me too. She also said I was ignorant. Please reread all her posts. I know what I read. Stop trying to argue with me jreuter. Rowda was out of line too.
Good post, jreuter. (your long one, 2 back) It has become clear that SirDent is predisposed to believe evil of Muslims. His brand of Christianity resembles his brand of patriotism. He is not content simply to hold a belief. He feels the need to disparage every belief system but his own. I believe that HubPages are in error for allowing him to post the cartoon of the prophet Muhammad as a suicide bomber. The defense of free speech is not a carte blanche for offensiveness.
Sweetie,
agreed. But to be honest, I'm harder on sirdent than most others, for reasons of faith. I'll give him credit for good spelling though. (;
Jreuter,
I see what you mean now, but Rowda was not respectful either. She had some facts wrong. She believes there is no abuse towards women in the Middle East, I will not fall for her disrespectful words towards me or scare tactics. Also, she needs to use the spell checker.
You really like to deal in generalizations, don't you sirdent? Egypt has been allied with Israel for quite some time now, since the camp david accords of '79, and Lebanon is not necessarily anti-Israel, nor pro-Israel. The situation in Lebanon is far more complicated than you imply. But to play supposed devil's advocate, how is Israel free from blame? Take a walk through a Palestinian refugee camp sometime, and tell me just how righteous Israel really is. You pretty much baited rowda into an argument using Saddam and Osama as your anchor points, and yet isn't that a bit off topic? Couldn't a Muslim just as easiy cite examples of people like Swaggart and Baker who misused their religious authority to gain wealth and prestige? My point is, this whole hub has proven to be a ridiculous mess, one that neither proves the truth of Christ nor reflects tolerance and compassion for others. What really grates me is how you try to imply a double standard for using images of Christ and Muhamad, and then have Islam's most revered prophet represented with a bomb in his turban. And to list all those countries and say, "they hate Christians" is beyond absurd. You of all people should see the problem in reading any scripture at face value. How many verses in our Bible need to be further explained to avoid misinterpretation and misuse? The Koran, though I do not hold it to be a holy book, is hardly different in this regard. The verse you so often refer to as a muslim call to arms is rarely interpreted as such by the Muslim world. More often, it is regarded as a permisson to wage a just war against those who would do evil. Historically, muslims have been extremely tolerant of Jews and Christians, considering us to be "people of the book." More than we can say of our Christian forefathers in medieval Europe, who murdered whole villages of Jews enroute to their liberation of Jerusalem. There is a growing fear and hatred for the Muslim world in this country today, and as someone who has seen the middle-east firsthand, and has experienced hospitality on a level never seen in this country, I find your words to be of little help in the growing culture war.
Oh, and SweetiPie, Rowda was quoting Sirdent regarding the incorrect fact.
Rowda has one fact wrong, Egypt does not want to destroy Israel. The tourist industry is a major money maker in Egypt and most Egyptians do not agree with extreme Islamic terrorists who plot the downfall of Israel. They do not agree with all of Israel's policies, but it was President Andwar Sadat of Egypt who signed the Camp David Accords with Israelli Prime Minster Menachem in 1978, which ensured peace between Israel and Egypt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_Sadat
Unfortunately, Sadat was assasinated by terrorists, but his successor President Hosni Mubarak has maintained peace with Israel until the present. Yes this is a strained peace, but the majority of Egyptians do not want an all out war with Israel. They may not agree with the conception of Israel, but people do not want unnecessary wars or disruptions of peace for not.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/20/international/af
Egyptians may not be in love with Israel and yes Israel has done many wrong things. Honestly I think their treatment of Palestinians is wrong, which Rowda would have known if she had read the comments, but Egypt is not going to risk war when they want peace. Egyptians are too smart to put their tourist industry in jeopardy by going to war with Israel. Most people in the world seek peace and do not speak of war as Rowda has.
Rowda,
Sorry but your words to me are not spelled correctly. I did not say anything ignorant, but you come across as ignorant by spelling words wrong. I hate the word ignorance by the way and I think it is a weak personal attack people use for attention. However, since Rowda used the word ignorant I decided to show her this comes across as disrespectful.
I never said anything disrespectful to you Rowda, but please learn how to write correctly, use respect, and get your facts straight. You try to demean me by saying I cannot mention women in Islam are abused, but I will not fall for your guilt trips. You have the right to say women in Christianity are abused and I would not contradict you because I have that much respect for your freedom of speech. In America and most of the free world people can have an alternate opinion to yours, so do not expect ue to fall in line just because you spelled a few words incorrectly LOL. I have taken a few courses on Islam, but I do not have to be a Muslim to say yes there is abuse towards women in Iran. Anyone who thinks the imposition of the Islamic state is not abusive in Iran has never read a book or spoken to an Iranian person. My co-worker's husband is a Iranian who fled Iran because he did not agree with the Revolution of 1979. He is not the only Iranian who left and many who stay now hate the current government and its strict imposition of chador and other silly laws, which is why women push the envelop very much in Tehran when it comes to dress. There was a story of a 16 year girl that was forced to have sex with a older man and who was then hanged because the judge ruled she was a whore. Guess what, the majority of people did not agree with this judge's opinion. However, they did not have the freedom of speech to speak out, so they had to do it under aliases. Of course Rowda thinks she is right about everything and will not listen to me, which sounds like something a preschool child would say to his mom or dad while refusing to eat their vegetables. I am not her parent or superior, but she has tried to treat me as inferior with her scare tactics. Sirdent will be nice to her and say thanks, but I will not thank someone who has not facts to back up what she is saying. It is her choice to go live in the Middle East after having grown up in the USA, but I think she might be an afluent jet setter who has never been subjugated to the abuse many women of the Middle East experience on a daily basis.
Good day to you Rowda.
I am from Palestine but born and raised here in the USA and please with all respect do not say things you do not know. You said:
I know that Iraq, Iran, Syria, Egypt, Libya, and Lebanon among others want to totally destroy Israel. They hate Israel and they hate Christians. The one thing Muhammad ordered them to do to Jews and Christians is "kill them wherever you find them."
this is not true I am a PALESTINAIN and we do not hate jews or christians so who ever told you that is wrong and dont say muhammed said that because this is untrue. Your comments are very iggnoranrt.
in our religion we do not believe jesus is God we believe he is a prophet and he is not above God. There is only one God and Muhammed PBUH and Jesus are not GOD.
anyways I will not waste my time any longer because if you are to hard headed to look at the facts and only want to try and look at a couple of negative things thats fine and thats your life and mind not mine. I will not judge you on your belifes or anything, everyone has strong belifes and they have the right to choose what they believe.
so good day to you and luck for you in your future. Just i encourage that you really do your research before you post another HUB.
Thank you and good day
Well Rowda, Muhammad didn't die for the sins of the world. Only Jesus did that. Anyone who puts another above Jesus puts that person above God.
You said that Sadaam Hussein and Bin laden are muslims. You said they follow the Qur'an. You call them extreme. But they still follow Muhammad's word. Doesn't this make Muhammad extreme also?
I know that Iraq, Iran, Syria, Egypt, Libya, and Lebanon among others want to totally destroy Israel. They hate Israel and they hate Christians. The one thing Muhammad ordered them to do to Jews and Christians is "kill them wherever you find them."
This all seems really straightforaward to me. By the way if I may ask, Where are you from? I don't want an exact address, just what country would be fine. But you don't have to answer that either.
For one you shouldnt show pictures of the prophets in any wrong way becasue that is disrespectful.
In islam this is True that Prophet Muhammed PBUH is higher ranked but that does not mean we would ever show any disrespect to any other prophet because they all had different tasks to do, but just because you do not agree with this does not mean that you need to say such horrible things becasue it is not your place.
The war is already going on, Rowda. What I am saying and the reason I wrote this hub is there are terrorists who want to do nothing but destroy. I read the translation of the Qur'an and compared it to the teachings of Jesus. The teachings are compeltely different.
A thought just came to me. I get ragegd on for p[osting a picture orf Muhammad, but not for posting one of Jesus. Muslims say they are both honorable prophets, but it seems Muhammad has a higher calling than Jesus or any other prophet accroding to Islam. Is that true?
No I am not saying they are not muslims but I see that you are not looking at the stuff that answered back to you and you are trying to make it seem like I was saying something that I was not. Yes they are muslims but from your article I believe you were talking about the religion of islam and Prophet Muhammed PBUH and sadaam and Osama yes they are muslims but now what you are trying to do is bring in the war, are you not?
Sadaam Hussein is very relevant to the subject. he was a follower of Islam, just as Osama bin laden is. Are you saying they're not Muslims?
i have Flagged.
First question- they follow the quran which is true, but there is a reason why they are called extremist becasue they take what they are supposed to be doing and follow it to way extreme point. an example the women is supposed to wear a scarf on her head but it is her option to wear it or not I am a young muslim women and I do not wear, because it is our desicion to make but we will suffer our consequences and that is our descion. now in iran the men are not supposed to force this on the women but this is why they are called extremist becasue also no were in the qurn does it say that a women must cover her face but if the people and the women are willing to listen and live that why who are you or me to judge and make unimformed comments about their lifestyle. so the term extremist is give to people from all religions and cultures that tend to push it. no one is perfect and i think we all know that, and there is no write to pick at ones mistacks. I do not judge that all the men here in america practice polygamy just because there were people in utah who did so.
Second Question- this is very simple to answer, Does bush follow christianity? and as for sadaam hussien thats a whole other topic becasue what i see your trying to do here is bring up something that is totally irrelavent. You were insulting Prophet Muhammed PBUH.. please stick with that.
Third Question- According to sharia law, if a women is raped this is not her fault. The guy will be punished, and the girl would be treated the same as they would here. In the religion of islam if this was forced upon the girl they would do anything to help her and punish the man.
Flag away Rowda. It has been flagged and checked and flagged and checked again.
I have to ask you a few questions though. Are the extremeists in Iran following the Qur'an?
Did Sadaam Hussein follow the Qur'an? What does Sharia Law say about a woman that is raped?
Hello to Sir Dent and Seetie pie, (I have just read this for the first time)
You have all your fax wrong.
For one when you say that you got the quotes directly from the muslim book known as the holly quran, you are wrong because you can not read them becasue they are in arabic and it has been said that it is truley impossible to accuratly translate the quran from arabic to english because it is written so beautifully.
Second sweetie pie you have no write to speek of the kifes of muslim women and say they are abused because that is the most ignorant thing i have heard every country and religion have there flaws just becasue in iran there are extremists does not mean that has anything to do with there religion it is culture. No one discriminates against the christian americans who abuse there wifes, and murder, rape, and practice polygamy. we have respect to know that no one is perfect and every country, culture, race, religion, ect. has their flaws.
I can go on for a long time explaining this to you but i will not waste my time for you any longer, becasue as you read this it will go through one and probably out the other, but if you dont know about the religion and the practices and have not read the actual Holly Quran you have no right to speak and make ignoarant comments.
FYI i will bw flagging this Hub because this is going against the rules but i hope you understand that you came off very offensive.
A woman does not need a witness to prove she is raped. Please any woman who reads this do not feel you cannot come forward because there are no witnesses. Sometimes a woman is raped repeatedly where there are no other witnesses beside the perpetrator. Never be afraid to come forward about these cases.
http://womenshealth.about.com/cs/azhealthtopics/a/
It is the man's fault and not yours.
Thanks for ther response ahmed. From the reports I have seen, most of the times the woman is stoned to death even if she was raped because no one would be a witness. This is according to Sharia Law I have been told.
The raped girl or woman, in islamic nation, is taken as a victim, but it doesn't mean this girl or woman to be left without marriage..
but listen, not any girl or woman, come and say I'am raped to be believed, there should be witnesses for that, or a doctor report stating that she is raped (supported by police report). anyway, for the raped woman, they are treated in our islamic countries as victims, and there is no objection for them to marry and live their life normally.
I appreciate your comments ahmed. I have been trying to get an answer to a question for some time now. Not sure if you're merely avoiding it or just missing it.
What happens to girls or women who are raped in Islamic nations?
As i see since yesterday, there were many discussions, any way ..
I was asked, if dating is considered as being adultry in islam, so what about all of this islamic sites which mentioned the word dating ..
from my point of view i have 2 comments:
1. islam, never incourage for couples (non-maried) to be left alone with no observation from the family, yes ofcource (fiances) are allowed to seat together as much as they prefere, but not alone - as there is spoken narrated to muhammed (pbuh) : for a man and a women, to meet alone, so the the satan is third of their company.
2. the word (DATING) despite of being new to us, I think, it doesn't mean for couples to be alone - it is a way for couples to know each other thru photos, sending messages, etc. (not to arrange for them to meet alone)..
another thing to mention, maybe i misuse the word adultry to your culture, as i ask one of my indian friends today regarding dating and adultry, he said: no if a contact happened to married people, so it is the only case they take it as adultry. so i have to clarify.
but in islamic culture as i mentioned, even if nothing happened, or will not happen, it is a permission of such things to happen.
also, adultry in islam up to my knowlege, is called (zena) in arabic, zena is the physical connection between any (if they are married or not) male and female.
that's why, as i see, there is a big gap between the 2 cultures regarding this particular point. even the share'at (islamic law) punish both of them with difference but zena is there and also punishment).
to the question MUHRIM? it means a person from the woman side (as being together there will be no sin under any condition) like husband, father, son, brother etc.
balisunset says:5 hours ago
I hate to argue about religion, really......
I will not attack your religion or anything
you see...
Qur'an 24:58 "Believers, let your slave girls, and those who have not come to puberty, ask permission on three occasions: before dawn, while you take off your clothes at midday, and after the night prayer. These are your times of undress - times of privacy for you. Outside those times it is not wrong for them to move about: Thus does Allah make clear the Signs."
This verse is intended to avoid obscenity and vulgarity. Male and female who are not muhrim, are not allowed to be alone. That's very clear. This rule extends to slaves and non-puberty children.
So you see, there is no chance for unmarried couple to be all alone.
SirDent: Thank you for the clarification. I asked for this almost since the first comment on this hub. What is wrong with unmarried couples being alone and what exactly does muhrim mean?
You s
SirDent says:
2 weeks ago
Maddie Ruud says:18 hours ago
SirDent:
Re: your response to Ahmidtruth, aren't you picking out what you want out of the Qur'an to make your point, and ignoring the rest? How is that any different
SirDent: You are right. I used a few passages. I also asked for clarification right from the beginning of this hub. Mostly what I got was threats, name calling, etc. . .
I still wait for clarification.